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  #91  
Old July 21st 11, 08:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
RobertH
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On Jul 20, 4:49 pm, Michael Press wrote:

Besides that, horses evolved in North America, and hence arguably have
the right to go wherever they want to.


Horses were introduced to N. America by the Spanish in the 1500s.


Both are true statements.


Well it's complicated isn't it. The 'horses' that evolved in 'N.
America' evolved in a very different climate -- wasn't so-called N.
America down near the equator tens of millions of years ago? And then
didn't those horses become extinct in an evolutionary process as time
went on and 'N. America' changed? So arguably the timeline of horse
development in 'n. america' proves even further that Mother Nature
doesnt actually want them here. They are introduced species.

That is, unless the early horses were hunted to extinction by early
man, then all bets are off.

Anyway Vandemort's point is a non-starter. Horses almost never get to
'go wherever they want to go.' I love horses and that would be fine
with me, but the reality is they are fenced into pens and parcels then
directed along a very narrow path by their riders, thus destroying the
surface of that path.
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  #92  
Old July 21st 11, 08:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Mike Vandeman[_4_]
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On Jul 20, 2:20*pm, mike fee wrote:
In article 47856de2-10e9-4505-810f-
,
says... On Jul 19, 11:09*pm, RobertH wrote:

Horses were introduced to N. America by the Spanish in the 1500s.


That has nothing to do with what I said: "horses evolved in North
America, and hence arguably have
the right to go wherever they want to".


So presumably, with consideration of the historic presence of mammoths
and camels in north america, you would not be against the re-
introduction of these species where possible and would support elephant
treking in US national parks?


No. I never said that. Mammoths and camels have the right to be here,
but not as vehicles for humans.
  #93  
Old July 21st 11, 08:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
RobertH
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On Jul 20, 11:20 am, AMuzi wrote:

meh. Both natural flora and fauna kill humans too:


Yes but not often enough to make any real positve difference.

In all seriousness, the mountains can be deadly in many unexpected
ways. A few weeks ago a father and daughter, both experienced hikers,
were killed when a blast of wind blew them off of a trail above
timberline. The same weekend, on a different mountain in the vicinity,
someone was crushed by a boulder they were hiding under during a
storm.

  #94  
Old July 21st 11, 08:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
RonSonic
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"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Jul 15, 10:03 am, "Ronsonic" wrote:
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message

...
On Jul 14, 1:02 pm, Peter Cole wrote:


Can't you read? "horses evolved in North America, and hence arguably
have the right to go wherever they want to". Did you flunk grade school
English, as well?


I read what you wrote. Horses were extinct in North America until introduced
some 500 years ago. Now if you want to argue that they were re-introduced,
you could, but you'd have to explain the differences between the fossil
record and the horses that are out there now. Shall we release some wolves
into England and tell the locals it's okay, they belong there.

I agree with you on a philosophic basis, bikes are indeed inanimate and if
I
ever see one out on a trail on its own, I'll order it off the trail.


There is no right to bring a bike onto a trail.


Why ever do you say such a silly thing. I have every right to ride the
trails.


  #95  
Old July 21st 11, 08:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
RonSonic
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"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Jul 18, 1:45 pm, SMS wrote:
On 7/17/2011 8:36 AM, Opus wrote:

On Jul 17, 9:53 am, wrote:
snipity
Since all the experts agree that mountain bicycling is no more damaging
to trails or wildlife than hiking, there is no reason to have such
limits on mountain biking in national parks.


"Experts" other than Mikey, you mean?


Yes, I'm referring to those that have done a scientific analysis of the
impact of each type of trail user. That explicitly excludes our favorite
troll.


BS. I wrote the ONLY scientific paper on the subject. Every allegedly
"scientific" paper written by a mountain biker was fatally biased and
dishonest.

Are you trying to tell us that you are unbiased?


  #97  
Old July 21st 11, 09:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
James[_8_]
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On Jul 21, 2:31*am, RobertH wrote:
On Jul 20, 7:13 am, James wrote:

On Jul 20, 4:54 pm, RobertH wrote:


If we're going to be really honest with ourselves, and I don't suppose
we are, we'll have to admit that the trail itself is an unholy
unnatural gash through the wilderness.


Wild animals make and use "game trails" all the time. *Domestic
animals do the same. *Just look at sheep tracks around hillsides.


Yes.. but a man-made trail or trail associated with humans will cause
disruption even if nobody is on it. Certain species incl. birds will
alter their natural migration patterns to avoid the trail entirely.


I have observed many animals, including some birds, _using_ man made
trails. Kangaroos, wallabies, wombats, dingos, deer, pigs, goats,
emus (a bird), foxes, etc.

--
JS.
  #98  
Old July 21st 11, 09:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
James[_8_]
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On Jul 21, 4:54*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Jul 19, 11:54*pm, RobertH wrote:


If you really care about wildlife, destroy the trail entirely, then
keep your animal-terrorizing self at home and out of the wilderness..


I agree, I have been saying that for 15 years. Where have you been?


You don't practice what you preach?

--
JS.
  #99  
Old July 21st 11, 12:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Peter Cole[_2_]
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On 7/21/2011 3:34 AM, Ronsonic wrote:
Shall we release some wolves
into England and tell the locals it's okay, they belong there.


That's being done in the US.
  #100  
Old July 21st 11, 01:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Mike Vandeman[_4_]
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On Jul 21, 12:00*am, RobertH wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:49 pm, Michael Press wrote:

Besides that, horses evolved in North America, and hence arguably have
the right to go wherever they want to.


Horses were introduced to N. America by the Spanish in the 1500s.


Both are true statements.


Well it's complicated isn't it. The 'horses' that evolved in 'N.
America' evolved in a very different climate -- wasn't so-called N.
America down near the equator tens of millions of years ago? And then
didn't those horses become extinct in an evolutionary process as time
went on and 'N. America' changed? So arguably the timeline of horse
development in 'n. america' proves even further that Mother Nature
doesnt actually want them here. They are introduced species.

That is, unless the early horses were hunted to extinction by early
man, then all bets are off.

Anyway Vandemort's point is a non-starter. Horses almost never get to
'go wherever they want to go.' I love horses and that would be fine
with me, but the reality is they are fenced into pens and parcels then
directed along a very narrow path by their riders, thus destroying the
surface of that path.


But since they have the right to go wherever they want to, that's not
a problem. Bikes, on the other hand, have NO rights.
 




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