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Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 26th 06, 01:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Regarding the labs doing the drug testing, a couple things come to mind-

#1: What, exactly, are the rules regarding confidentiality of the testing?
Are they recommendations, or are there sanctions that can occur?

#2: As I was thinking out loud during an exchange with Benjo, for the first
time it came to me that perhaps there *is* a cultural issue with the leaky
lab. A reason why it drives many Americans crazy (in terms of the type and
number of leaks that occur) yet doesn't seem to bother the French. The plain
& simple truth is that, here in the US, if someone were found to be the
source of such leaks, they'd be fired. Few would question that such an act
was called for, and the fact that such a realistic downside to not following
the rules exists serves as a means of enforcing the rule. But in France,
perhaps it's much harder to fire someone? And thus, what *might* be seen a
an almost-heroic (in some cases) act of disobedience in the US... something
that someone is willing to put their reputation on the line for... in
France, perhaps it's nothing more than a personal vendetta. A way of easily
taking the law into ones own hands and not having to worry much about the
downside to doing so.

So with that, I wonder... has anyone been fired from one of the testing labs
(for improper procedures or leaking info to the press)? Have they even
bothered to look very hard for those guilty, if in fact there's not much
they can do about it anyway?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


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  #2  
Old November 26th 06, 03:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla
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Posts: 633
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Regarding the labs doing the drug testing, a couple things come to mind-

#1: What, exactly, are the rules regarding confidentiality of the testing?
Are they recommendations, or are there sanctions that can occur?


The CAS does NOT have the authority to impose a fine for breach of
confidentiality or any other mistake. The riders agreed to these rules
when they took out a license, so they lose the right to complain. If
they want to sue the lab, then be my guest.


#2: As I was thinking out loud during an exchange with Benjo, for the first
time it came to me that perhaps there *is* a cultural issue with the leaky
lab. A reason why it drives many Americans crazy (in terms of the type and
number of leaks that occur) yet doesn't seem to bother the French. The plain
& simple truth is that, here in the US, if someone were found to be the
source of such leaks, they'd be fired.


I completely disagree. Leaks happen all the time in U.S. law
enforcement. What makes you think it's just a Euro thing?


Few would question that such an act
was called for, and the fact that such a realistic downside to not following
the rules exists serves as a means of enforcing the rule.


Let me ask you something - why are so concerned with the leaks - as
opposed to the positive test results? What is the point of finding out
who leaked this stuff?

I don't understand what your point is in finding out the source of these
leaks - do you think that doing so will somehow turn positive tests into
negative tests?



But in France,
perhaps it's much harder to fire someone? And thus, what *might* be seen a
an almost-heroic (in some cases) act of disobedience in the US... something
that someone is willing to put their reputation on the line for... in
France, perhaps it's nothing more than a personal vendetta. A way of easily
taking the law into ones own hands and not having to worry much about the
downside to doing so.

So with that, I wonder... has anyone been fired from one of the testing labs
(for improper procedures or leaking info to the press)?


Probably for the same reason nobody gets fired in your local
prosecutor's office for leaking informmation to the press.


Have they even
bothered to look very hard for those guilty, if in fact there's not much
they can do about it anyway?


How would they "look" for that person? Do these like use a magnifying
glass?


Magilla
  #3  
Old November 26th 06, 04:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Kurgan Gringioni
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Posts: 1,796
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?


MagillaGorilla wrote:

I don't understand what your point is in finding out the source of these
leaks - do you think that doing so will somehow turn positive tests into
negative tests?



Dumbass -

It calls into question the impartiality of the lab.


So with that, I wonder... has anyone been fired from one of the testing labs
(for improper procedures or leaking info to the press)?


Probably for the same reason nobody gets fired in your local
prosecutor's office for leaking informmation to the press.



Bad analogy. The prosecutor is not supposed to be impartial. The judge
is. Note how lawyers give statements to the press but judges never do.

In the case of cycling or any other sport, the lab is also supposed to
be impartial. The lab should not be engaging in anything beyond
testing.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

  #4  
Old November 26th 06, 04:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Kurgan Gringioni
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Posts: 1,796
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Regarding the labs doing the drug testing, a couple things come to mind-

#1: What, exactly, are the rules regarding confidentiality of the testing?
Are they recommendations, or are there sanctions that can occur?

#2: As I was thinking out loud during an exchange with Benjo, for the first
time it came to me that perhaps there *is* a cultural issue with the leaky
lab. A reason why it drives many Americans crazy (in terms of the type and
number of leaks that occur) yet doesn't seem to bother the French.



snip



Dumbass -


A difference in mentality can be seen with their different approach to
jurisprudence. In France, once someone is charged with a crime, it is
up to the accused to prove his/her innocence. Here it is up to the
prosecutor to prove the accused is guilty.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

  #5  
Old November 26th 06, 05:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla
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Posts: 633
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

I don't understand what your point is in finding out the source of these
leaks - do you think that doing so will somehow turn positive tests into
negative tests?




Dumbass -

It calls into question the impartiality of the lab.



Does it really? In reality, the person leaking the info is not the
person running the test. Therefore, the impartiality of the leaker is
irrelevant.

Thanks,

Magilla
  #6  
Old November 26th 06, 05:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla
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Posts: 633
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

I don't understand what your point is in finding out the source of these
leaks - do you think that doing so will somehow turn positive tests into
negative tests?




Dumbass -

It calls into question the impartiality of the lab.



So with that, I wonder... has anyone been fired from one of the testing labs
(for improper procedures or leaking info to the press)?


Probably for the same reason nobody gets fired in your local
prosecutor's office for leaking informmation to the press.




Bad analogy. The prosecutor is not supposed to be impartial. The judge
is. Note how lawyers give statements to the press but judges never do.


FACT: Judges are notoriously partial and their silence to the press does
not equate to their impartiality. Most judges are partial to prosecutors.


Magilla
  #7  
Old November 26th 06, 05:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla
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Posts: 633
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

I don't understand what your point is in finding out the source of these
leaks - do you think that doing so will somehow turn positive tests into
negative tests?




Dumbass -

It calls into question the impartiality of the lab.



So with that, I wonder... has anyone been fired from one of the testing labs
(for improper procedures or leaking info to the press)?


Probably for the same reason nobody gets fired in your local
prosecutor's office for leaking informmation to the press.




Bad analogy. The prosecutor is not supposed to be impartial. The judge
is. Note how lawyers give statements to the press but judges never do.

In the case of cycling or any other sport, the lab is also supposed to
be impartial. The lab should not be engaging in anything beyond
testing.



I was unaware that WADA labs engage in anything other than testing.

Magilla
  #8  
Old November 26th 06, 05:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 633
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Regarding the labs doing the drug testing, a couple things come to mind-

#1: What, exactly, are the rules regarding confidentiality of the testing?
Are they recommendations, or are there sanctions that can occur?

#2: As I was thinking out loud during an exchange with Benjo, for the first
time it came to me that perhaps there *is* a cultural issue with the leaky
lab. A reason why it drives many Americans crazy (in terms of the type and
number of leaks that occur) yet doesn't seem to bother the French.




snip



Dumbass -


A difference in mentality can be seen with their different approach to
jurisprudence. In France, once someone is charged with a crime, it is
up to the accused to prove his/her innocence. Here it is up to the
prosecutor to prove the accused is guilty.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.



This is only in theory. In reality, U.S. juries consider all defendants
guilty and it is up to defendants to disprove the prosecutor's case.
That's why innocent people are convicted all the time.


Magilla
  #9  
Old November 26th 06, 06:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
mal
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Posts: 67
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

Truly naive.

Its nothing but credibility. I can't trust them to follow their own
protocols, why would I expect they didn't play loose with the rest?


  #10  
Old November 26th 06, 06:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Michael Press
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Posts: 1,100
Default Has anyone been fired (testing labs)?

In article ,
MagillaGorilla wrote:

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

I don't understand what your point is in finding out the source of these
leaks - do you think that doing so will somehow turn positive tests into
negative tests?




Dumbass -

It calls into question the impartiality of the lab.



Does it really? In reality, the person leaking the info is not the
person running the test. Therefore, the impartiality of the leaker is
irrelevant.


Are you a Jesuit? A corrupt agent in the laboratory can
pick and choose _which_ data to divulge. The data does
not even have to have scientific weight to be damaging
when divulged.

--
Michael Press
 




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