BOB vs LongTail?

Idle curiosity question:

What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer
that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not?
--
PeteCresswell

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:29:06 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Idle curiosity question:

What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer
that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not?

I have been interested in cargo equipment for quite a while and have
owned both types.

The BOB has the advantage of being able to disconnect easily.
Dynamically, it's a great package... once you get the damn thing
loaded and underway, you really can't beat it.

The huge disadvantage to a BOB is that it's difficult to maneuver. We
ride tandem and it's a bear to back it up or get it up to a parking
wall. It has poor static stability and tends to jackknife easily
while you're loading it.

I think I'd go with a BOB over a longtail; however, I'm not going to
preach an hour-long sermon over it. It is a whole lot easier to load
a longtail, though. I built a motorcycle-style center stand for my
BOB and that helped... it's still quite a circus, though.

Jones

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Idle curiosity question:

What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer
that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not?

More capacity, including passengers, the BOB has relatively modest
weight and volume capacity. The BOB also tends to thrash its cargo
badly. The BOB is particularly good at light loads & rough terrain,
which is mostly what I've used mine for (MTB picnics). It's OK for light
grocery shopping, but a bit of a PITA for general errand running, I
prefer a low-tech milk crate on rear rack (or bucket panniers). I might
consider it an alternative to panniers for loaded touring.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have much use for a long-tail. I've made
several 2-wheel trailers and use them to haul my boats around. I've gone
up to ~600 lb total weight (including me & the bike, trailer and cargo),
and that's with boats up to 16' long. No exotic parts or materials --
dimensional lumber, lag screws and cast-off MTB wheels. A long tail with
cargo bags might be good for heavy grocery shopping, but so would a
(2-wheel) trailer, and the trailer is much cheaper and easier to store.
The long-tail is a solution looking for a problem in my world.

On 2/19/2010 7:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Idle curiosity question:

What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer
that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not?

I've not yet owned any cargo bike--but it seems to me that the idea of a
"cargo" longbike is sorely misplaced.

The only thing a longtail is really great at is carrying things which
can sit mostly on the top of the rack, and hang down both sides
conveniently--like, a smaller person's butt sitting on the rack, and
their legs hanging down on both sides..... which was the main point of
longtails. That you could attach child seats to them and the kids legs
hung down on the sides naturally. In photos of bikes in Europe, that's
how most of them are used.

The only inanimate thing I can say I've seen that a longbike was
carrying well, was a couple surfboards--one strapped against each side,
hanging off the back a couple feet, with the fins out.

For carrying nearly any other kind of cargo, a longtail would be much
less ideal than a front-bucket baksfiet-type bike, that has a big, open
cargo area in front. Which also allows you to keep an eye on the
(inanimate) cargo, in case any of it comes loose and falls out during
the ride. Of course one can carry people in them too, which works also.

(I don't know why they like the wooden front boxes, though. I would be
much more interested in a stainless-steel large-mesh basket myself.
Won't rot, holds just as much and not nearly the aero drag when empty)

If you only had to carry cargo occasionally (and you knew in advance
when you would be doing so) then a trailer would make the most sense to
me. It can offer the nearly-flat cargo space of the bakfiets, while also
allowing long stuff to hang off the back end without interfering with
the rider.
~

On Feb 20, 1:37*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Idle curiosity question:

What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer
that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not?

More capacity, including passengers, the BOB has relatively modest
weight and volume capacity. The BOB also tends to thrash its cargo
badly. The BOB is particularly good at light loads & rough terrain,
which is mostly what I've used mine for (MTB picnics). It's OK for light
grocery shopping, but a bit of a PITA for general errand running, I
prefer a low-tech milk crate on rear rack (or bucket panniers). I might
consider it an alternative to panniers for loaded touring.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have much use for a long-tail. I've made
several 2-wheel trailers and use them to haul my boats around. I've gone
up to ~600 lb total weight (including me & the bike, trailer and cargo),
and that's with boats up to 16' long. No exotic parts or materials --
dimensional lumber, lag screws and cast-off MTB wheels. A long tail with
cargo bags might be good for heavy grocery shopping, but so would a
(2-wheel) trailer, and the trailer is much cheaper and easier to store.
The long-tail is a solution looking for a problem in my world.

A bit off the OP's interest, but what do you think of this small-wheel
trailer he http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrrad...ailer_233.html
I thought about getting one just to try it on my groceries but decided
I would never haul 40kg of groceries and could manage with pannier
baskets. (And spent the money instead getting gold coachlining, Brooks
saddle and Brooks grips, and with the change bought a big leather
saddlebag.) Also, on a bike that already has a long wheelbase, a
trailer would probably be cumbersome in some of the narrow alleys I
shoot through between streets, or on the footbridge I routinely use to
come home and on the downhill side hit at at 40kph with about two
inches to spare on either side. Also, I wondered how precisely one can
place a trailer behind one at speed.

Andre Jute
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live -- Mark Twain

Hi,

mostly in the same fashion...

Andre Jute wrote:
A bit off the OP's interest, but what do you think of this small-wheel
....

When I was looking for cargo-carrying ability a while back, I considered
a long-tail (though I just had a new bike then and even a "normal" bike
is difficult to handle in trains (narrow train doors,
hang-up-on-the-front-wheel racks, narrow corridors,...), so I'm not
interested in a longer bike than I already have. Otherwise this would
suit 50% of my cargo carrying needs.

Next came looking at one-wheel trailers. Though I found out I don't need
them THAT badly (BOB Yak is quite expensive). Also I don't need the
terrain-going ability of the single-wheel trailer.

So I checked two-wheel trailer. The good ones are still quite expensive
(too expensive for my occasional need). The cheap ones usually attach to
the seat post - which I ruled out at the beginning.

That left me stranded - especially since I wanted something that I can
use as a trolley (when going on foot) and I'm quite tall.

Finally I designed my own trailer. It attaches to the bike at the left
side of the rear hub, it has a long-enough handle and the wheels are far
enough back to allow me to turn the trailer on it's rear side. This
allows me to pull it by hand easily.

After quite some time I bought a set of detachable wheels for a baby
carriage, including an axle (1m overall width). I built a box from wood
(painted with some leftover color). A trip to the Do-It-Yourself store
bought me several pieces of stock metal with lots of holes in it, some
stock aluminium, a few reflectors and I got a coupling at a bike store.
It took a few hours to put everything together, and now the trailer does
everything I need it to. It carries about 30kg. I should be able to
improve upon that, but it's enough for me. It runs very well (no
noticeable resistance) and actually pushes a lot when loaded ;-) The
whole thing was quite cheap and fun to build.

It's actually even more fun when I uncouple it at the supermarket, use
it as a supermarket cart and re-attach it outside. I always get comments ;-)

A description (sorry, in German only) and a few pictures are he
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de/technik/anhaenger_modell_muenchen_1

Ciao...

Per Bernhard Agthe:
(sorry, in German only)

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--
PeteCresswell

On Feb 22, 12:24*pm, Bernhard Agthe wrote:

Finally I designed my own trailer. It attaches to the bike at the left
side of the rear hub, it has a long-enough handle and the wheels are far
enough back to allow me to turn the trailer on it's rear side. This
allows me to pull it by hand easily.

After quite some time I bought a set of detachable wheels for a baby
carriage, including an axle (1m overall width). I built a box from wood
(painted with some leftover color). A trip to the Do-It-Yourself store
bought me several pieces of stock metal with lots of holes in it, some
stock aluminium, a few reflectors and I got a coupling at a bike store.
It took a few hours to put everything together, and now the trailer does
everything I need it to. It carries about 30kg. I should be able to
improve upon that, but it's enough for me. It runs very well (no
noticeable resistance) and actually pushes a lot when loaded ;-) The
whole thing was quite cheap and fun to build.

It's actually even more fun when I uncouple it at the supermarket, use
it as a supermarket cart and re-attach it outside. I always get comments ;-)

A description (sorry, in German only) and a few pictures are he
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de/technik/anhaenger_modell_muenchen_1

Looks a bit like the carts we built as kids, only yours is better
painted! -- Andre Jute

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:12:13 -0800 (PST), in rec.bicycles.tech Andre
Jute wrote:

Also, I wondered how precisely one can
place a trailer behind one at speed.

I'm not a BOB *believer*; however, I do use one. In terms of dynamic
stability and tracking, I give them quite high marks. I say this
having used a few other products such as a Burley trailer and a
longtail. Tracking is the BOB's forte and it's a great package for
*that*.

Its problem is that you frequently need to roll the bicycle backwards
and, until you have a loaded BOB hooked up, you don't realize how
often that is... and it's a PITA!

BOBs are also prone to jackknife situations while you're trying to
load them. If it's even slightly off a straight line, the downward
force pulls it into a jackknife.

It is my opinion that, once you manage to get the damn thing loaded,
pointed in the right direction, and under weigh, the BOB is the best
unit. It's also my experience that this is only half of the picture
and that one should consider the whole thing before buying one.

Now, you know what *I* think; use your two remaining wishes carefully!

Jones

DougC wrote:

For carrying nearly any other kind of cargo, a longtail would be much
less ideal than a front-bucket baksfiet-type bike, that has a big, open
cargo area in front. Which also allows you to keep an eye on the
(inanimate) cargo, in case any of it comes loose and falls out during
the ride. Of course one can carry people in them too, which works also.

The advantage of a longtail cargo bike is that it approaches bakfiets
total load capacity while performing and handling much more like a
normal bike. The significant extra weight, small front wheel, and the
long linkage steering of a bakfiets make it slow and ungainly compared
to an Xtracycle, Surly Big Dummy, Kona Ute, or Yuba Mundo. The
bakfiets has its advantages (just as you note) but a longtail makes a
much better "only bike".

If you only had to carry cargo occasionally (and you knew in advance
when you would be doing so) then a trailer would make the most sense to
me. It can offer the nearly-flat cargo space of the bakfiets, while also
allowing long stuff to hang off the back end without interfering with
the rider.

Compared to longtails, trailers bounce, jackknife, flip over, and are
more difficult to prop up on a sidestand or centerstand. They're more
difficult to lock up and mostly less capable of negotiating
constricted spaces. Consider this: Why are pickup trucks and vans so
much more popular than auto trailers, when trailers are much more
economical and can be drawn by a more efficient and comfortable car?
The same principles apply to cycle trailers.

Chalo