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What protocol does Shimano di2 uses



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 11th 17, 04:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ixiz[_2_]
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Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position
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  #2  
Old January 11th 17, 05:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 8:42:04 PM UTC-8, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


bluetooth
  #3  
Old January 11th 17, 01:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ixiz
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Posts: 31
Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 12:05:34 AM UTC-5, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 8:42:04 PM UTC-8, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


bluetooth


I dont think so - its not wireless
  #4  
Old January 11th 17, 01:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 5:42:04 AM UTC+1, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


Is that not a standard feature and buy extra switches from Shimano?

Lou
  #5  
Old January 11th 17, 01:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ixiz
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Posts: 31
Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 5:42:04 AM UTC+1, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


Is that not a standard feature and buy extra switches from Shimano?

Lou


YES and no - where i want to put the switches is not standard and not available
  #6  
Old January 13th 17, 03:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 4:42:04 AM UTC, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


CAUTION! The Di2 I have is for touring bikes and automatically controls hub gearboxes and active, adaptive suspensions. There is a separate computer control centre powered by the hub dynamo, with its own very small energy storage, which is part of the system. My Di2 is therefore likely to be different from and certainly more expansive than the cut-down Di2 on weight weenie road bikes. How fundamental the differences are I can't tell. You can get a fuller description at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
if you're interested.

HOWEVER: The Di2 on my bike also has manual override modes, and when I reengineered the bike to suit me better shortly after buying it, I had to fit new electrical control cabling because the designer or the engineer on the prototype I bought had cut everything too short for me for the sake of a "sporting" appearance. Counting the control wires and the subsequent successful tests and operation of the redone wiring led me to conclude that the Di2 (again, on my bike anyway) operates a simple mechanical binary system, a left-off-right signal to the stepper motor and this was borne out by the self-centering rocker switches supplied for the manual control. (Before the usual railroad minds on RBT now whine that a three-position switch isn't "binary", they should put their minds in gear. The switch sends only two signals: plus voltage and minus voltage, which then drives the stepper motor in its two different rotary directions. The central position on the switch is a convenience null: no signal is sent; the stepper motor doesn't need to be told to do nothing because that is its default state.)

I were you, I would start testing with an on/off switch in the wiring, and see in which direction it drives the stepper motor. Or, if you already have a spring loaded toggle or rocker, attach the wires and see.

MORE CAUTION! Unless you have considerable micro-electronic soldering and testing experience and skill, good eyes and a steady hand, have factory replacement wires with the right plugs already on them standing by before you start work -- and work on the spares, not the wires on the bike that are necessary for its operation, or work with jumpers. I suspect that on a road bike the Di2 wiring will be ultra-lightweight and nasty to work with, read fragile.

This is a project fraught with disaster, so I'm not responsible for anything that goes wrong on your bike, and I imagine your LBS will take the same attitude, as will Shimano.

Ignore idiots who claim it uses Bluetooth; it's not a wireless system, though, if you're working on it anyway, and you know what you're doing, it can easily be made wireless: I'm holding a Bluetooth sender/receiver set in my hand that weighs apparently nothing and is less than half an inch to a side.. Not suggesting that you do it, though; even if you don't already have plenty of stuff operating on Bluetooth on your bike, within a year or two the air around it will be foul with Bluetooth transmissions. On my bike already the iPhone is the centre of too many operations.

Andre Jute
Technofondler
  #7  
Old January 13th 17, 03:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 7:17:20 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 4:42:04 AM UTC, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


CAUTION! The Di2 I have is for touring bikes and automatically controls hub gearboxes and active, adaptive suspensions. There is a separate computer control centre powered by the hub dynamo, with its own very small energy storage, which is part of the system. My Di2 is therefore likely to be different from and certainly more expansive than the cut-down Di2 on weight weenie road bikes. How fundamental the differences are I can't tell. You can get a fuller description at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
if you're interested.

HOWEVER: The Di2 on my bike also has manual override modes, and when I reengineered the bike to suit me better shortly after buying it, I had to fit new electrical control cabling because the designer or the engineer on the prototype I bought had cut everything too short for me for the sake of a "sporting" appearance. Counting the control wires and the subsequent successful tests and operation of the redone wiring led me to conclude that the Di2 (again, on my bike anyway) operates a simple mechanical binary system, a left-off-right signal to the stepper motor and this was borne out by the self-centering rocker switches supplied for the manual control. (Before the usual railroad minds on RBT now whine that a three-position switch isn't "binary", they should put their minds in gear. The switch sends only two signals: plus voltage and minus voltage, which then drives the stepper motor in its two different rotary directions. The central position on the switch is a convenience null: no signal is sent; the stepper motor doesn't need to be told to do nothing because that is its default state.)

I were you, I would start testing with an on/off switch in the wiring, and see in which direction it drives the stepper motor. Or, if you already have a spring loaded toggle or rocker, attach the wires and see.

MORE CAUTION! Unless you have considerable micro-electronic soldering and testing experience and skill, good eyes and a steady hand, have factory replacement wires with the right plugs already on them standing by before you start work -- and work on the spares, not the wires on the bike that are necessary for its operation, or work with jumpers. I suspect that on a road bike the Di2 wiring will be ultra-lightweight and nasty to work with, read fragile.

This is a project fraught with disaster, so I'm not responsible for anything that goes wrong on your bike, and I imagine your LBS will take the same attitude, as will Shimano.

Ignore idiots who claim it uses Bluetooth; it's not a wireless system, though, if you're working on it anyway, and you know what you're doing, it can easily be made wireless: I'm holding a Bluetooth sender/receiver set in my hand that weighs apparently nothing and is less than half an inch to a side. Not suggesting that you do it, though; even if you don't already have plenty of stuff operating on Bluetooth on your bike, within a year or two the air around it will be foul with Bluetooth transmissions. On my bike already the iPhone is the centre of too many operations.

Andre Jute
Technofondler


The bluetooth is now a system on a chip I believe and you can buy them from Digikey.
  #8  
Old January 13th 17, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,067
Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On 11/01/17 15:41, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses
to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can
change gears at the different hand position



I have no idea, but if I was to design such a system I'd investigate the
possibility of using CAN bus. A very similar tech is used for
automotive automation.

--
JS
  #9  
Old January 13th 17, 11:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,385
Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 5:21:16 AM UTC-8, ixiz wrote:
On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 12:05:34 AM UTC-5, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 8:42:04 PM UTC-8, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position


bluetooth


I dont think so - its not wireless


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/sh...-wireless-unit
  #10  
Old January 14th 17, 02:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 9,721
Default What protocol does Shimano di2 uses

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 11:29:58 PM UTC, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 5:21:16 AM UTC-8, ixiz wrote:
On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 12:05:34 AM UTC-5, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 8:42:04 PM UTC-8, ixiz wrote:
Where can I find more information of what protocol Shimano di2 uses to change gears I would like to add an additional switch so I can change gears at the different hand position

bluetooth


I dont think so - its not wireless


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/sh...-wireless-unit


According to the blurb at that link, the Bluetooth permits the derailleur to send information like cadence to the head unit. It says nothing about two-way communication, such as sending commands wirelessly to the derailleur. What the OP wants to do is to send commands to the derailleur.

Andre Jute
Electronic chatter is not necessarily a symptom of intelligence
 




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