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#32
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On 2019-08-17 15:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 11:03:39 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2019-08-16 16:12, bob prohaska wrote: The seat bag toolkit went missing on my bike after 30-odd years. Unfortunately, I noticed only after getting a flat tire 8 miles from home. As penance for my inattention I elected to walk, despite half a dozen offers of help from other riders and one motorist. The exercise is one I'm not eager to repeat 8-) Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? My kit acquired quite a bit more, including a chain tool, spoke wrench and freewheel tool, along with hex keys. I don't think any of the first three have ever been useful on the road, but they don't weigh much and they're far easier to find if they're on the bike. Has anybody ever had use for them, or other "shop" tools, on the road? Mine can be summed up in one word, Crankbrothers M19. https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19 It weighs a bit much for most riders but mine sure has helped a lot or other riders out of a pickle. Last time was Thursday. Strangely I haven't needed it for myself yet. The other tools such as wood pieces and rocks for hammering, nature provides. Suggestions for a seat bag would also be welcome. For the moment I'll put the tools and spares in the pannier baskets, but that's dangerous as they can be removed and forgotten. Much better to have necessities permanently living on the bike. Seat bags slosh around too much. I carry the tools in a small "butt pack" which rides along in the right pannier. That pack also carries my wallet, keys, phone and stuff. If going into a pub or shop I can whip it out and strap it around my waist. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I have a number of different seat bags and none of them "slosh around". I find the seat bag quite useful and love the fact that I don't have to have a rear rack and pannier in order to carry my repair kit. YMVFEE* Maybe because up to 40% of my rides happen on an MTB and rough turf. Everything that isn't solidly bolted or cinched on flies off. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#33
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Maybe because up to 40% of my rides happen on an MTB and rough turf. Everything that isn't solidly bolted or cinched on flies off. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ The Topeak has a plastic attachment that sometimes can vibrate the cross-seatbar attachment off. But because of the size of the bag it cannot rotate the bag into any position in which it could shake off. I use them on everything now. There is another method that has a locking bar that is almost impossible to release even when you know how. Those work well too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCKBROS-MT...8IAF 5UbXMEow |
#34
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 23:12:55 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote: Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? I don't do much riding any more, but have been involved in assembling tool, junk, and part collections in the distant past. I've learned a few lessons that might be worth mentioning. First, I suggest you inspect the photos under "bicycling everyday carry kit" at: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+everyday+carry+kit If you have Pinterest.com account, also look at those photos. Lots of good (and bad) ideas can be found in the photos. One lesson, that I learned is that, the all in one multi tool conglomerated tools are a PITA to use and really awkward to use. They are all attached to a single body, when often you need to use two tools at once. Few have long enough "handles" too apply much leveraged force. The compromise Phillips drivers fit badly in almost the various screws. None have anything resembling a scraper, pointed tweezers, lock raking tools, and other useful tools not associated with bicycling. An example of why a multi tool is a bad idea are the common metric hex wrenches. The loose individual wrenches have two working bits. If you round off one end, you can try the other end. However, with one end of the hex drive wrapped around a bolt, this option is gone. You could try to file the rounded end flat, but that doesn't work if the file is also attached to the multi tool. Instead of a multi tool, I carry two 1/4 hex drive handles (straight and right angle ratchet), and a bag with about 10 bits. Also, a set of loose hex wrenches, knife, small file (for "adjusting" mangled parts), LED head light, plastic tire irons, chain breaker, spare chain links, small hammer, tweezers, small crescent wrench, patch kit, extra rubber cement, and small channel lock pliers. In the support department, I carry a drug store first aid kit, bottle of alcohol, extra bandages, 3 days of the pills I take, antihistamine (Benadryl), liquid bandage, Woundseal, https://www.riteaid.com/shop/woundseal-powder-4-applications-0351910 some cash, towel paper, tissue paper, Boraxo hand cleaner in a pill bottle, desiccant, rubber gloves, candy bar, spare driving/reading glasses, illuminated magnifier, SD camera card, and such. I also carry an envelope with copies of medical and identification documents and an encrypted SD card with online accounts and passwords that I might need. Another lesson is that I use my riding tool kit mostly to help other riders and only rarely for my own use. (The first aid part of the kit is a different story). In most cases, the problem is something fell of their bicycle, usually a screw. So, I carry a small plastic bag full of common screws, brake cables, cable end caps, tire valves, tire valve adapters, spoke nipples, brake pad nuts, a seat post clamp, pannier screws and nuts, brake lever adjustment screws, 1/16" rubber strip (for shim or tourniquet), etc. Basically, all the stuff that might fall off during a ride. Also, some blue thread lock, quick setting adhesive, small tube of grease, electrical tape, small roll of baling wire, thread, string, spare bicycle lock key, ty-wraps, sewing kit, USB fast charger, and various USB to phone cables. Most of this will fit in a common bicycle seat pack. Some goes in my pockets or panniers. Notice that I do not carry spare tire tubes. Patching is more time consuming but good enough. I wanted to add a USB battery bank and 12x25 pocket binoculars, but I couldn't make them fit. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#35
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote: At least the multitool where the small socket tools are all attached to the backbone can't get lost like my handle-and-tiny-interchangeble-bits thingy. A fellow on a touring forum saw a discussion of my tools and said he would take it on his world tour. I was forced to tell him that he'd lose the bits before he was out of France, that such a poncey little toolkit is only good for someone who never goes further than a 60m from home. Perhaps double zip lock plastic bagging the contents of the tool kit might be useful to prevent tool loss. Maybe bring a powerful magnet to help find where on the ground the bits landed. Bits are fairly easy to find and replace while travelling. Those that fit in multi tools are more expensive and can be difficult to find. Note: I own a Leatherman Wave, but rarely carry or use it. It's too heavy to carry and is difficult to use for bicycle repairs. I also have several pocket bicycle multi tools that live in various toolboxes. I don't like the backbone things anyway, because I find them awkard to handle, all the tools not in use trying to scratch my bike. Yep. Same problem. I use individual tools, drivers and bits. However, it's not because they're awkward. It's because it's impossible to get sufficient leverage with such short handle tools. See my rant on the topic further down this thread. Compromise isn't ideal See BikePacking: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bikepacking+gear+list I kinda like this spreadsheet approach: http://www.palespruce.com/bikepacking-gear-spreadsheet/ http://www.palespruce.com/wp-content/uploads/PaleSpruce_BikepackingGearList.xls (Needs to be converted to metric). -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#36
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Replacing a lost toolkit
Jeff Liebermann writes:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: At least the multitool where the small socket tools are all attached to the backbone can't get lost like my handle-and-tiny-interchangeble-bits thingy. A fellow on a touring forum saw a discussion of my tools and said he would take it on his world tour. I was forced to tell him that he'd lose the bits before he was out of France, that such a poncey little toolkit is only good for someone who never goes further than a 60m from home. Perhaps double zip lock plastic bagging the contents of the tool kit might be useful to prevent tool loss. Maybe bring a powerful magnet to help find where on the ground the bits landed. Bits are fairly easy to find and replace while travelling. Those that fit in multi tools are more expensive and can be difficult to find. I keep mine inside a widowed sock (put stuff in the toe, rotate a few times, roll the top back) inside a nylon stuff sack. The sock is a useful rag if needed. |
#37
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On 8/18/2019 2:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
One lesson, that I learned is that, the all in one multi tool conglomerated tools are a PITA to use and really awkward to use. ... None have anything resembling a scraper, pointed tweezers, lock raking tools, and other useful tools not associated with bicycling. Lock raking tools? Are those to acquire someone else's bicycle if yours is giving trouble? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#38
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:36:41 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: At least the multitool where the small socket tools are all attached to the backbone can't get lost like my handle-and-tiny-interchangeble-bits thingy. A fellow on a touring forum saw a discussion of my tools and said he would take it on his world tour. I was forced to tell him that he'd lose the bits before he was out of France, that such a poncey little toolkit is only good for someone who never goes further than a 60m from home. Perhaps double zip lock plastic bagging the contents of the tool kit might be useful to prevent tool loss. Maybe bring a powerful magnet to help find where on the ground the bits landed. Bits are fairly easy to find and replace while travelling. Those that fit in multi tools are more expensive and can be difficult to find. The problem of this particular tool, now out of production, is that it makes the weight (68gr!) by making the bits shorter than normal, so it is easy to imagine frozen fingers dropping the bits. The bits themselves are titanium, so I wonder if a magnet would help. Note: I own a Leatherman Wave, but rarely carry or use it. It's too heavy to carry and is difficult to use for bicycle repairs. I also have several pocket bicycle multi tools that live in various toolboxes. I have a bicycle toolkit, with one tool missing from it, that lives near the Herman Miller Mirra chair in my study. The arms take a beating because when I pull or insert various plugs on the wall behind me, one arm takes my full weight, so the arms have to be retightened every year or so. The missing tool is an 8mm socket with common 1/4in drive stub on the back, useful for changing gears on a Rohloff HGB if the cable breaks, which hasn't happened to me in ten years, nor to anyone I know, but better to be prepared. I don't like the backbone things anyway, because I find them awkard to handle, all the tools not in use trying to scratch my bike. Yep. Same problem. I use individual tools, drivers and bits. However, it's not because they're awkward. It's because it's impossible to get sufficient leverage with such short handle tools. See my rant on the topic further down this thread. My problem is actually too much leverage rather than too little. My bike is steel, not plastic, but 2-6Nm torque ratings abound, and the more expensive the component, the lower the permitted torque. There's even one oil-retention stud with a torque rating of 0.5Nm, I kid you not. I do it up finger-high, which is probably already 2Nm. Compromise isn't ideal See BikePacking: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bikepacking+gear+list I kinda like this spreadsheet approach: http://www.palespruce.com/bikepacking-gear-spreadsheet/ http://www.palespruce.com/wp-content/uploads/PaleSpruce_BikepackingGearList.xls (Needs to be converted to metric). Those guys need to get a life. My idea of bike packing is to chuck stuff into the Basil Cardiff pannier basket, open at the top in my low-crime area, until it is full, or too full to take my painting gear du jour, and only then to sort it out. On a recent sorting I found I'd been carrying three small first aid kits. Since I cycle with a doctor and/or a nurse, I have no idea what they first aid kits are for. Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 Andre Jute The systems approach: do as I say, not as I do |
#39
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Replacing a lost toolkit
This from Jeff caught my eye:
Boraxo hand cleaner in a pill bottle I don't have a hand cleaning problem on my bike. i wear leather dress gloves for cycling and don't hesitate even a second to sacrifice a pair of gloves rather than get my hands dirty. However, if I know I'll get my hands dirty, as for instance painting in oils, I use barrier cream that rinses off with cold water, no soap. I have a big tube of mechanic's barrier cream, bought at the supermarket, in the pilot's wheeled case I use as a bicycle toolbox and in each of my paintboxes a little screwed container about 1.5in diameter by 0.75in high of Messrs Winsor & Newton's hand protection cream for artists, which takes oil with it as long as you remember not to put soap on your hands before you finish rinsing the oil away, which works equally well for mechanicking on bikes. However, any of the stiffer hand creams sold to ladies will do; I especially like the house brand of the German supermarket chain Lidl. Andre Jute Who didn't wash the soap? The rest is left for context. No further new text. On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 7:52:46 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 23:12:55 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska wrote: Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? I don't do much riding any more, but have been involved in assembling tool, junk, and part collections in the distant past. I've learned a few lessons that might be worth mentioning. First, I suggest you inspect the photos under "bicycling everyday carry kit" at: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+everyday+carry+kit If you have Pinterest.com account, also look at those photos. Lots of good (and bad) ideas can be found in the photos. One lesson, that I learned is that, the all in one multi tool conglomerated tools are a PITA to use and really awkward to use. They are all attached to a single body, when often you need to use two tools at once. Few have long enough "handles" too apply much leveraged force. The compromise Phillips drivers fit badly in almost the various screws. None have anything resembling a scraper, pointed tweezers, lock raking tools, and other useful tools not associated with bicycling. An example of why a multi tool is a bad idea are the common metric hex wrenches. The loose individual wrenches have two working bits. If you round off one end, you can try the other end. However, with one end of the hex drive wrapped around a bolt, this option is gone. You could try to file the rounded end flat, but that doesn't work if the file is also attached to the multi tool. Instead of a multi tool, I carry two 1/4 hex drive handles (straight and right angle ratchet), and a bag with about 10 bits. Also, a set of loose hex wrenches, knife, small file (for "adjusting" mangled parts), LED head light, plastic tire irons, chain breaker, spare chain links, small hammer, tweezers, small crescent wrench, patch kit, extra rubber cement, and small channel lock pliers. In the support department, I carry a drug store first aid kit, bottle of alcohol, extra bandages, 3 days of the pills I take, antihistamine (Benadryl), liquid bandage, Woundseal, https://www.riteaid.com/shop/woundseal-powder-4-applications-0351910 some cash, towel paper, tissue paper, Boraxo hand cleaner in a pill bottle, desiccant, rubber gloves, candy bar, spare driving/reading glasses, illuminated magnifier, SD camera card, and such. I also carry an envelope with copies of medical and identification documents and an encrypted SD card with online accounts and passwords that I might need. Another lesson is that I use my riding tool kit mostly to help other riders and only rarely for my own use. (The first aid part of the kit is a different story). In most cases, the problem is something fell of their bicycle, usually a screw. So, I carry a small plastic bag full of common screws, brake cables, cable end caps, tire valves, tire valve adapters, spoke nipples, brake pad nuts, a seat post clamp, pannier screws and nuts, brake lever adjustment screws, 1/16" rubber strip (for shim or tourniquet), etc. Basically, all the stuff that might fall off during a ride. Also, some blue thread lock, quick setting adhesive, small tube of grease, electrical tape, small roll of baling wire, thread, string, spare bicycle lock key, ty-wraps, sewing kit, USB fast charger, and various USB to phone cables. Most of this will fit in a common bicycle seat pack. Some goes in my pockets or panniers. Notice that I do not carry spare tire tubes. Patching is more time consuming but good enough. I wanted to add a USB battery bank and 12x25 pocket binoculars, but I couldn't make them fit. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#40
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Replacing a lost toolkit
On Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:46:11 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote: On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:36:41 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote: The problem of this particular tool, now out of production, is that it makes the weight (68gr!) by making the bits shorter than normal, so it is easy to imagine frozen fingers dropping the bits. The bits themselves are titanium, so I wonder if a magnet would help. Titanium is weakly magnetic. I just ran a neodymium magnet, salvaged from a hard disk drive, on two titanium bolts. The magnet will barely pickup the hardware. I don't think it's strong enough to grab the hardware if there's any air gap. Of course, nothing is simple with titanium: https://terpconnect.umd.edu/~wbreslyn/magnets/is-titanium-magnetic.html https://www.futurity.org/titanium-gold-magnet-959462/ I'm also the owner of about 6 different Zircon stud finders (don't ask why), some of which are able to locate metals. https://www.zircon.com/feature/primary-features/metal-scan/ It works with titanium but at about 1/5th the range compared to a steel bolt. A stud finder might be suitable for finding titanium hardware but only at very close range. I have a bicycle toolkit, with one tool missing from it, that lives near the Herman Miller Mirra chair in my study. The arms take a beating because when I pull or insert various plugs on the wall behind me, one arm takes my full weight, so the arms have to be retightened every year or so. Try some blue Loctite on the chair screws. The missing tool is an 8mm socket with common 1/4in drive stub on the back, useful for changing gears on a Rohloff HGB if the cable breaks, which hasn't happened to me in ten years, nor to anyone I know, but better to be prepared. If you remove the 8mm socket from your tool kit, the Rohloff gear hub will surely break. I've never torn apart a Rohloff hub, but I suspect that you really don't want to rebuild the hub during a ride or race. My problem is actually too much leverage rather than too little. My bike is steel, not plastic, but 2-6Nm torque ratings abound, and the more expensive the component, the lower the permitted torque. There's even one oil-retention stud with a torque rating of 0.5Nm, I kid you not. I do it up finger-high, which is probably already 2Nm. You could add a torque wrench or torque indicator to your tool kit. I have a good feel for how much torque is necessary and is being applied. However, many people do not, due to arthritis or peripheral neuropathy in the finger tips. I suppose a torque wrench would help: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-Drive-Bike-Torque-Wrench-Spanner-Set-Hex-Star-Bit-Fixing-Tool-2-14Nm/183791045377 AFAIK, nobody makes a bicycle tool that includes a torque wrench. Those guys need to get a life. My idea of bike packing is to chuck stuff into the Basil Cardiff pannier basket, open at the top in my low-crime area, until it is full, or too full to take my painting gear du jour, and only then to sort it out. On a recent sorting I found I'd been carrying three small first aid kits. Since I cycle with a doctor and/or a nurse, I have no idea what they first aid kits are for. I'm sure the titanium drivers will adequately compensate for the added weight of two extra first aid kits. Well, I know what my medical paraphernalia is for. I have a heart condition. If I fail to take the required pills at the designated times, I can really feel it. Exercise is allegedly beneficial, but also capable of causing angina, stroke, heart attack, internal bleeding, death, and other inconveniences. So, I drag my pill pile and medical records with me on rides. Also, my first aid kit is for helping others, which unfortunately has been necessary a few times. I usually manage to injure myself, but not in any manner that a pocket first aid kit will do any good. The systems approach: do as I say, not as I do No matter how well equipped, funded, or prepared, I always manage to forget to bring something important on a trip. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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