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Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 23rd 08, 05:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Wayne Brown
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Posts: 13
Default Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.

SMS wrote in rec.bicycles.misc:
Bob wrote:
On Sep 21, 10:13 pm, SMS wrote:
This afternoon we pushed the button to activate the light on minor cross
street of a four lane road. The light changed, the traffic stopped, or
so we thought, and we proceed across. About half way across, a Toyota
Corolla blew through the red light at high speed, about 12 feet in front
of me. If I had been two seconds or so faster it'd have been the end.

So I was thinking that it really was much more dangerous to cross on the
green, trusting that the cross traffic would stop, than to simply wait
for a break in traffic and run the red light.


An idiot running a red light endangered your safety so you conclude
that you'd be safer if *you* run red lights? I don't see how that
conclusion follows.


Because I'd treat the red light like a stop sign, and only proceed when
there is no cross traffic, rather then depending on vehicles to stop
when I have the green light.


How about treating the green light like a YIELD sign, and only proceed
when there is no *moving* cross traffic, rather then depending on vehicles
to stop when you have the green light? I see that as preferable to
running red lights yourself.

--
F. Wayne Brown

Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
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  #12  
Old September 23rd 08, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.

Wayne Brown wrote:

How about treating the green light like a YIELD sign, and only proceed
when there is no *moving* cross traffic, rather then depending on vehicles
to stop when you have the green light? I see that as preferable to
running red lights yourself.


The problem is on multiple lane roads where you cannot always see the
outside lane of traffic, especially when the inside lane of traffic has
stopped.

What happened to me on Sunday was that there were 3 or four cars stopped
in the left lane, but the right lane was clear, and the driver blew
through the light in the right lane. She was obscured from view by the
other cars until the last minute.
  #13  
Old September 23rd 08, 08:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Peter Cole[_2_]
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Posts: 4,572
Default Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.

SMS wrote:

We have a horrible public works department in this city that doesn't
believe in any sort of traffic calming. The next city over, Sunnyvale,
seems to take traffic calming very seriously.


We just got a new guy who seems much more pro-calming than the old guy.
I think it's spreading, albeit slowly.
  #14  
Old September 23rd 08, 08:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.

Peter Cole wrote:
SMS wrote:

We have a horrible public works department in this city that doesn't
believe in any sort of traffic calming. The next city over, Sunnyvale,
seems to take traffic calming very seriously.


We just got a new guy who seems much more pro-calming than the old guy.
I think it's spreading, albeit slowly.


We had a great guy, who retired. He was extremely pro-traffic calming,
much to the dismay of some of the city council that didn't like to ever
be impeded while driving. After he left the city began to dismantle a
lot of the stuff he did, including timed gates that shut off short-cuts
through residential neighborhoods during commute times.

I was hysterically laughing when I saw that our bicycle and pedestrian
commission wanted to apply for LAB's "bicycle friendly city" status,
following about six yeas of worsening the quality of cycling in the city.

Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to get rid of the public works
director who we have now. The council isn't too happy with him, but only
the city manager can fire him, and he won't. The majority of council
would also like to dump the city manager, but his contract requires four
out of five votes, and currently it's three to two (though no one will
admit this). Our mayor would melt if someone dumped a bucket of water on
her. I wish I could afford to live in Palo Alto.
  #15  
Old September 24th 08, 02:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Bob
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Posts: 513
Default Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.

On Sep 22, 10:04*pm, SMS wrote:
Bob wrote:
On Sep 21, 10:13 pm, SMS wrote:
This afternoon we pushed the button to activate the light on minor cross
street of a four lane road. The light changed, the traffic stopped, or
so we thought, and we proceed across. About half way across, a Toyota
Corolla blew through the red light at high speed, about 12 feet in front
of me. If I had been two seconds or so faster it'd have been the end.


So I was thinking that it really was much more dangerous to cross on the
green, trusting that the cross traffic would stop, than to simply wait
for a break in traffic and run the red light.


An idiot running a red light endangered your safety so you conclude
that you'd be safer if *you* run red lights? I don't see how that
conclusion follows.


Because I'd treat the red light like a stop sign, and only proceed when
there is no cross traffic, rather then depending on vehicles to stop
when I have the green light.


So you'll only proceed after making sure there's no other traffic that
might endanger you. That sounds like a perfect plan but I've talked to
literally thousands of people after they were involved in traffic
crashes. The overwhelming majority of the at-fault drivers said
something like, "I didn't see them". If you miss spotting one car
driving 30 mph when you run a red light on a bike the odds are good
that you'll be unavailable to make that same statement.
If your concern is staying safe as opposed to inventing an excuse to
run red lights, I think what I and others have suggested (obey the
light but don't assume that just because your light is green you're
100% safe) would be a much better course of action.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
  #16  
Old September 24th 08, 09:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 26
Default Maybe it's safer to run red lights than to wait for green lights.

On Sep 21, 8:13*pm, SMS wrote:
This afternoon we pushed the button to activate the light on minor cross
street of a four lane road. The light changed, the traffic stopped, or
so we thought, and we proceed across. About half way across, a Toyota
Corolla blew through the red light at high speed, about 12 feet in front
of me. If I had been two seconds or so faster it'd have been the end.

So I was thinking that it really was much more dangerous to cross on the
green, trusting that the cross traffic would stop, than to simply wait
for a break in traffic and run the red light.


Wish I could remember the correct attribution (or maybe the correct
quote), but I was reminded of the following:

The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but
that' s the way to place your bets.

Watch out? Sure! Be careful? Absolutely! Change your default
behavior to running red lights on a bicycle? BZZT!

Pat
 




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