Cadel on Australian drivers

Terryc wrote:

You forgot the bit about "80% of families with bicycles only take
said bicycles out twice per year".

So it may be more correct to say that 'everyone is more likely to
walk than bicycle, and more likely to car than walk'.

Your logic is faulty. Perhaps if you bicycled more blood flow to the
brain might improve.

True, I have been a bit slack of late, however, nope.
I still stand by my logic. Flawed as it might be, it better represents my
experience with the masses than your logic.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

Terryc wrote:
John Tserkezis wrote:
cfsmtb wrote:

Where's the citable references for those quotes?


Er, "I read about it on the Internet, so it must be true".

True story, it was an (online) SMH article that claimed that. (the
80% bit, not the who rides what bit).

Well at least the SMH is marginally more readable than the Terror or
the Heretic or the ague or whatever, but 99% of their column inches
reads like arse pluck anyway.

Terry, my anecdotal experience is that there appear (to me) to be more cars
on the roads than bicycles, despite that there are more bicycles sold. From
this I deduce that a very great number of bicycles are not being used (on
the road). YMMV.

Theo

"Theo Bekkers" wrote:

Their wallets will force them off the road soon enough.
Things *are* changing.

http://www.aboc.com.au/Members/carl/...PriceTrend.gif

Nice graph. So how many people were f'orced off the road' in 1979, when
the price of crude went up 170% in six months?

Yes, not too many. But then the 1973 oil crisis was the catalyst for the
Netherlands great move to using bikes for transport, and curtailing car use.

The difference is that bot the 1973 and 1979 oil spikes were caused by a
political action that was relatively short-lived. It motivated a search for
some new supplies (not that much found though really) and had it been a
longer term supply restriction the reduction in auto use would have been
much more significant. Prices dropped back to extremely low levels for most
of the 80s and 90s.

The price hike now? No political crisis that has brought it on. It's simply
a matter of continual growth in demand, and little new supplies (psst....
peak oil!) Just as well, for our atmosphere's sake, too.

As you imply, that will continue. And prices are bound to rise much more. At
what point will drivers abandon their fixation with the car? When they can't
feed the family? When their mortgages are foreclosed? Who knows, but I'm
virtually down to using just one car for the family now, loving the freedom
in congested traffic, and getting fitter all the time )

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

"Terryc" wrote:

John Tserkezis wrote:
Terryc wrote:

Majority rules
'Everyone' is a pedestrian
'Everyone' is a car driver


Really?
Based on bicycle sales verses car sales, the more correct statement is
"Everyone is a bicycle rider".


You forgot the bit about "80% of families with bicycles only take said
bicycles out twice per year".

So it may be more correct to say that 'everyone is more likely to walk
than bicycle, and more likely to car than walk'.

Your logic is faulty. Perhaps if you bicycled more blood flow to the brain
might improve.

Whoaah!! Enough with the insults already guys!

My comments about driving and walking were very much TIC, about what the
great unwashed believe to be reality, hence the attitudes reflected in the
rules on cycling.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

PeteSig wrote:
"Theo Bekkers" wrote:

http://www.aboc.com.au/Members/carl/...PriceTrend.gif

Nice graph. So how many people were f'orced off the road' in 1979,
when the price of crude went up 170% in six months?

Yes, not too many. But then the 1973 oil crisis was the catalyst for
the Netherlands great move to using bikes for transport, and
curtailing car use.

The Netherlands were pretty much a bike transport place when I left as a kid
in 1953. I remember riding in the -bak. Are you saying they moved away from
that and then back again in 1973? Good for them.

The difference is that bot the 1973 and 1979 oil spikes were caused
by a political action that was relatively short-lived. It motivated a
search for some new supplies (not that much found though really) and
had it been a longer term supply restriction the reduction in auto
use would have been much more significant. Prices dropped back to
extremely low levels for most of the 80s and 90s.

Yes.

The price hike now? No political crisis that has brought it on. It's
simply a matter of continual growth in demand, and little new
supplies (psst.... peak oil!)

And some considerable input from the greed in the stockmarket.

Just as well, for our atmosphere's sake, too.

Come on Peter, it's pretty well established that oil burned by infernal
combustion engines accounts for less than 7% of Australia's pollution. It's
the coal use you need to attack. You know, that black stuff we use to heat
our water, cool our houses, cook our dinners, and see at night.

As you imply, that will continue. And prices are bound to rise much
more. At what point will drivers abandon their fixation with the car?
When they can't feed the family? When their mortgages are foreclosed?
Who knows, but I'm virtually down to using just one car for the
family now, loving the freedom in congested traffic, and getting
fitter all the time )

Good for you. I haven't used a car for a week now, but can't say the same
about the motorcycle. I do get 20 kms from a litre of petrol though.

Theo

On Jan 8, 9:42 am, EuanB
wrote:
AndrewJ Wrote:



I'm afraid this is in support of my position: that cars and bicycles
can't really co-exist and that what we need are high quality roadways
dedicated specifically
to bicycles. I'm in the education business, and I frankly don't think
that
your average yobbo is educable.

The balance of the available evidence suggests your position is wrong.
For example France has narrower roads, very little in the way of cycling
infrastructure and over there ridinig a bicycle is safer than driving a
car.

My experience with seperated facilities in and around Melbourne have
been overwhelmingly negative compared to the road.

--
EuanB

You may well be right. After my latest injury I'm a bit disillusioned
with cities
in total ...

On 2008-01-09, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:28:02 +1100
Terryc wrote:
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

No. "Everyone is a bicycle buyer".

You can't deduce more than that.

So the same applies to car?
If not, why not?

Of course it does. If all you know is "X cars sold" then that's all
you know. You don't know how many trips are made, how many people
travel in them, or how many km are covered.

And that cars tend to last 20 years, but most bikes sold may last 4
years (most bikes being sold are department store bikes likely bought
for a kids christmas present), and may be ridden twice in that
period.

--
TimC
"A distributed system is one in which I cannot get something done
because a machine I've never heard of is down." -- Leslie Lamport

On 2008-01-09, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Terryc wrote:
John Tserkezis wrote:
True story, it was an (online) SMH article that claimed that. (the
80% bit, not the who rides what bit).

Well at least the SMH is marginally more readable than the Terror or
the Heretic or the ague or whatever, but 99% of their column inches
reads like arse pluck anyway.

Terry, my anecdotal experience is that there appear (to me) to be more cars
on the roads than bicycles, despite that there are more bicycles sold. From
this I deduce that a very great number of bicycles are not being used (on
the road). YMMV.

Oppressor!!11!elvenenteen!


Oooh, pretty storm head working its way here.

--
TimC
 *** System shutdown message from root ***
System going down in 60 seconds

On 2008-01-09, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
PeteSig wrote:
As you imply, that will continue. And prices are bound to rise much
more. At what point will drivers abandon their fixation with the car?
When they can't feed the family? When their mortgages are foreclosed?
Who knows, but I'm virtually down to using just one car for the
family now, loving the freedom in congested traffic, and getting
fitter all the time )

Good for you. I haven't used a car for a week now, but can't say the same
about the motorcycle. I do get 20 kms from a litre of petrol though.

5L/100km? My friend's prius does that, and I don't forgive him any
less for driving such a damaging vehicle.

--
TimC
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?

John Tserkezis wrote:

I still stand by my logic. Flawed as it might be, it better represents
my experience with the masses than your logic.

Bloody reality.