A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old December 5th 17, 08:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On 12/5/2017 1:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:15:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I've wondered about a sort of multi-layer lock. Start with a strong cable,
say about 3/8" diameter. Have it threaded through a hardened steel tube with
thick walls. Have that tube encased in steel rings - say, cylinders whose OD
is just a bit larger than the ID of the tube.

My hope would be that the rings would spin so a grinder would be inhibited.
The tube would crush under bolt cutters and protect the cable.

I haven't given any thought to bending around corners or a lock mechanism.


Sigh. All you're doing is applying familiar metallurgical solutions
to the design. The problem is that they are all limited by the
limitations of the materials. The closest approximation to cut proof
are the various titanium locks:
https://www.tigrlock.com
https://altorlocks.com
It's possible to grind titanium (about the same as stainless steel).
The main limitation of a metallurgical solution is that anything that
can be fabricated can also be cut. Even the highest temperature
alloys can be cut by an even higher temperature torch, such as a
mythical portable plasma cutter. If overheating is impractical,
freezing with liquid nitrogen can make it brittle enough to break.
Like an arms race, the results are predictable and the effort usually
futile. The best you can do with metallurgy is to make the lock too
expensive to cut.

Perhaps a different approach might work better. The problem faced by
the average criminal is to steal the bicycle without destroying it.
That's easy when the lock is an independently removable accessory.
However, suppose the lock were designed and built as an integral part
of the bicycle frame. Cutting the lock would destroy the value of the
bicycle making the theft much less profitable.



Once locks become effective enough, we'll see an increase in
bicycle robbery/assault (as with cars) which will make mere
theft look good by comparison.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #42  
Old December 5th 17, 08:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:02:31 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/5/2017 12:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 07:42:15 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Given that many of the commercial "bicycle locks" can be rather easily
cut with hand tools I have always considered bicycle locking devices
as something the prevent a casual thief from stealing the bicycle and
am not prepared to spend a lot of money on one. I currently have a 5
foot length of steel chain and a padlock that I carry along if I plan
on leaving the bicycle unattended.

I believe that the price for my length of chain and padlock is
probably cheaper then the specially designed bicycle lock.


If that's true, then it's futile wasting money on bicycle locks.
Instead, one should invest in a bicycle theft deterrent device:
http://vengecycle.com


Statutes in most(all? IDK) states make a man trap (slang=
'booby trap') a felony and if you kill the SOB it's a murder
charge:

https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=119566

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...y-trap-burglar

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/04...43771372948641

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/boobytrap-law/


All that's covered in the FAQ. I suppose a few warning labels would
help. "Stealing this bicycle might result in uncontrolled flight" or
something similar. Once the press is full of horror stories
highlighting mutilated bicycle thieves, it would only be necessary to
equip the bicycle with the warning label. The deterrent is as
effective as the real thing. "Perception is everything".

Drivel:
Long ago, in high skool, I lost my bicycle lock somewhere. So, I just
took the air out of my tires, and pumped the tires back up when I was
ready to ride home. None of the local bicycle thieves were interested
in stealing an unrideable bicycle, or spending the effort to pump up
the tired. That worked for several months and the bicycle was never
stolen. However, when I was given a bigger and better bicycle, I
decided that it was best not to continue relying on luck and get a
proper bicycle lock.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #43  
Old December 5th 17, 08:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:10:11 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
Once locks become effective enough, we'll see an increase in
bicycle robbery/assault (as with cars) which will make mere
theft look good by comparison.


Yep, that's a very real risk. Still, it will buy some time to put
some more technology into anti-theft and rider protection systems. for
example, a bicycle adaptation of this solution might help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJGajj_zfZM
Just replace your water bottle with a small propane cylinder and
torch.

Ummmm... no:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcIkO4igOdM

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #44  
Old December 5th 17, 08:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Many years ago, one bike-shop owning friend
told me about the day he lost the key to his
cable lock. He had to sit at the exit to the
library and cut through the strands of the
lock bit by bit.

He described the many people who walked by
and clearly saw him at work, but nobody
stopped him or asked what he was doing.
It took a long time but he was able to cut
the cable and ride away.


When I was a kid I lost my keys to my bike and
smashed the lock open with a hammer in the
middle of the night. It took a fair amount of
hits which echoed between the houses.
The police came and I said the bike is mine.
The cop laughed, believingly, and said the bike
seemed to be "of the same class". It wasn't
a very expensive bike.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #45  
Old December 5th 17, 08:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

All that's covered in the FAQ.


.... what FAQ is that?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #46  
Old December 5th 17, 08:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

sms wrote:

The discerning bicycle thief owns a Bosch GWS
10.8-76 V-EC Professional Cordless 3" Angle
Grinder. Not sold in the U.S. but readily
purchased on eBay.


OK, I'll get one next month first thing

Bosch tools are very common here tho I don't
know if I've seen that one in particular.

I'm currently on Ryobi but if I had more money
I would switch to the most expensive Bosch and
Kamasa tools [1].

[1] https://www.kamasatools.com/

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #47  
Old December 5th 17, 10:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 20:31:36 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

All that's covered in the FAQ.


... what FAQ is that?


http://vengecycle.com
The FAQ lives near the bottom of the excessively long scrolling web
page with the excessively large type size and the zero contrast gray
text on pastel colored background.

Is VengeCycle legal?

VengeCycle is not legal in every state. If you are planning on
purchasing VengeCycle, make sure to check that unlicensed use of
explosives is legal in your state beforehand.

Is VengeCycle lethal?

No. We have worked very hard to ensure the safety of everyone involved
in the use and activation of VengeCycle, including bicycle thieves.
Damage is generally limited to the hands and is not considered lethal.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #48  
Old December 5th 17, 10:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 20:38:51 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm currently on Ryobi but if I had more money
I would switch to the most expensive Bosch and
Kamasa tools [1].

[1] https://www.kamasatools.com/


You might want to read a little about which conglomerate own which
tool companies:
http://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/
Pick your conglomeratated tool vendor wisely.

This week, I'm partial to Metabo which incidentally makes cordless die
grinders suitable for cutting bicycle locks:
https://www.metabo.com/us/enus/tools/cordless-tools/cordless-die-grinder/
https://www.metabo.com
Last week it was DeWalt. Before that, old Mikita.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #49  
Old December 6th 17, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 2:01:04 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:15:54 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I've wondered about a sort of multi-layer lock. Start with a strong cable,
say about 3/8" diameter. Have it threaded through a hardened steel tube with
thick walls. Have that tube encased in steel rings - say, cylinders whose OD
is just a bit larger than the ID of the tube.

My hope would be that the rings would spin so a grinder would be inhibited.
The tube would crush under bolt cutters and protect the cable.

I haven't given any thought to bending around corners or a lock mechanism.


Sigh. All you're doing is applying familiar metallurgical solutions
to the design. The problem is that they are all limited by the
limitations of the materials. The closest approximation to cut proof
are the various titanium locks:
https://www.tigrlock.com
https://altorlocks.com
It's possible to grind titanium (about the same as stainless steel).
The main limitation of a metallurgical solution is that anything that
can be fabricated can also be cut. Even the highest temperature
alloys can be cut by an even higher temperature torch, such as a
mythical portable plasma cutter. If overheating is impractical,
freezing with liquid nitrogen can make it brittle enough to break.
Like an arms race, the results are predictable and the effort usually
futile. The best you can do with metallurgy is to make the lock too
expensive to cut.

Perhaps a different approach might work better. The problem faced by
the average criminal is to steal the bicycle without destroying it.
That's easy when the lock is an independently removable accessory.
However, suppose the lock were designed and built as an integral part
of the bicycle frame. Cutting the lock would destroy the value of the
bicycle making the theft much less profitable.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Then the thief chops the frame and sells just the components. Many thieves discard the frames anyway as they are easier to track/identify than are the components on the frame.

Cheers
  #50  
Old December 6th 17, 12:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default BBB-41 Powerlock Bicycle Lock

On 12/5/2017 11:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Perhaps a different approach might work better. The problem faced by
the average criminal is to steal the bicycle without destroying it.
That's easy when the lock is an independently removable accessory.
However, suppose the lock were designed and built as an integral part
of the bicycle frame. Cutting the lock would destroy the value of the
bicycle making the theft much less profitable.


I recall talking to Steve from S&S Torque Couplers. He would sometimes
disassemble the frame then re-assemble it around a fixed object. Without
the proper tool, it's difficult to separate the frame.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ultimate bicycle lock system Jeff Liebermann Techniques 5 July 17th 10 05:04 PM
Handcuffs as bicycle lock Rocket J Squirrel Techniques 17 September 23rd 08 10:31 PM
SRAM Powerlock John Verheul Techniques 17 January 19th 08 11:29 PM
Any suggestion for Bicycle Lock? buddd General 5 September 7th 05 05:59 AM
Bicycle Lock Warning smyrna45 Techniques 3 September 19th 04 08:13 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.