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#21
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On 9/23/2019 1:13 AM, James wrote:
On 23/9/19 6:35 am, AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2019 12:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 9:38:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2019 10:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 8:07:38 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/21/2019 8:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 5:20:49 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/12/2019 6:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: I think that I'm going to change my flat bar bike over to a drop bar. There were no road shifters with hydraulic brakes until after I had put it together. (Or maybe they were so frightfully expensive we didn't move in the same spheres) The problem appears to be that it is a 10 speed and the only hydraulic shifter I can find appear to be either 11 speed or Di2. Were 10 speed hydraulic shifters even made? I really would hate to have to change over to 11 speeds. Next time you need a chain/cassette just go to 11: https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-po...1-speed-ergos/ Same hub, quick upgrade. Andrew - I ordered that Potenza and it was not a hydraulic lever. It is something that is called "hydraulically optimized" and that has something to do with the rear derailleur and not the hydraulic disk brakes it appears. It is made to use rim brakes or cable operated disks. Is this what you received? https://www.bike24.com/p2230094.html No, that is the correct one. You gave me a difference reference and until I read the entry in on the right side I didn't realize that they call the rear derailleur "hydraulically optimized." I suppose they use some sort of liquid shock absorber to keep the chain from jumping about on those very large ratio downshifts. It is a lot cheaper from ProBikeKit too. Campagnolo has always been weak on documentation and terminology. In this case, 'HO' for a rear changer means the upper pivot casting OD is minimized to clear a through-axle. My pet peeves are using 'Record' for twenty or more different products since 1960[1] and not marking the part number on the part (something Shimano does rigorously). [1]Typical telephone call here begins, "I have a Record Whatzit" "Which Record?" That is really odd - what does the oversized axles have to do with "hydraulically optimized"? I looked through the manual trying to discover how you would bleed the brakes and there wasn't even anything on how to thread the damn cables though the levers to replace them. If the Potenza didn't meet my requirements and cost so little I would change over to Shimano. That is really odd - what does the oversized axles have to do with "hydraulically optimized"? The first version had an upper pivot casting which could interfere with big fat through axles. Space is tight! http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html The current "HO" rear changer has a smaller OD on the upper pivot casting. I'm guessing that "big fat through axles" are predominantly used with (hydraulic) disc brakes? Yep. Frame and frame end designers like through axle with disc to ensure correct alignment. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#22
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 12:15:29 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 8:33:42 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 8:06:14 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:11:48 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 5:20:49 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/12/2019 6:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: I think that I'm going to change my flat bar bike over to a drop bar. There were no road shifters with hydraulic brakes until after I had put it together. (Or maybe they were so frightfully expensive we didn't move in the same spheres) The problem appears to be that it is a 10 speed and the only hydraulic shifter I can find appear to be either 11 speed or Di2. Were 10 speed hydraulic shifters even made? I really would hate to have to change over to 11 speeds. Next time you need a chain/cassette just go to 11: https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-po...1-speed-ergos/ Same hub, quick upgrade. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Andrew - I ordered that Potenza and it was not a hydraulic lever. It is something that is called "hydraulically optimized" and that has something to do with the rear derailleur and not the hydraulic disk brakes it appears. It is made to use rim brakes or cable operated disks. If you buy the right Potenza lever, it is hydraulic. I can ride over to Universal and get you a set. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...iABEgJKRvD_BwE I don't know why you would want to spend $600 USD on hydraulic levers, though. == Jay Beattie. The Hydraulic disk Potenza levers are $128 from Bike Kit Pro so when I get the refund back from Wiggl.com I'll call them up and make sure I am ordering the correct part. You're not ordering the correct part for $128 USD. Look at the site again.. The Potenza levers work like cheap Shimnano levers. You can shift up the cassette 2 or 3 gears at a time but only down one at a time. This might not make a difference with an 11-32 though. Perhaps the ratios are so wide that you don't need to change more than one at a time. I remember that the 8-speeds were like that. -- Jay Beattie. It wouldn't seem so but here it is: https://www.probikekit.com/component...e+STI+Shifters |
#23
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 6:55:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/23/2019 1:13 AM, James wrote: On 23/9/19 6:35 am, AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2019 12:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 9:38:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2019 10:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 8:07:38 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/21/2019 8:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 5:20:49 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/12/2019 6:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: I think that I'm going to change my flat bar bike over to a drop bar. There were no road shifters with hydraulic brakes until after I had put it together. (Or maybe they were so frightfully expensive we didn't move in the same spheres) The problem appears to be that it is a 10 speed and the only hydraulic shifter I can find appear to be either 11 speed or Di2. Were 10 speed hydraulic shifters even made? I really would hate to have to change over to 11 speeds. Next time you need a chain/cassette just go to 11: https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-po...1-speed-ergos/ Same hub, quick upgrade. Andrew - I ordered that Potenza and it was not a hydraulic lever. It is something that is called "hydraulically optimized" and that has something to do with the rear derailleur and not the hydraulic disk brakes it appears. It is made to use rim brakes or cable operated disks. Is this what you received? https://www.bike24.com/p2230094.html No, that is the correct one. You gave me a difference reference and until I read the entry in on the right side I didn't realize that they call the rear derailleur "hydraulically optimized." I suppose they use some sort of liquid shock absorber to keep the chain from jumping about on those very large ratio downshifts. It is a lot cheaper from ProBikeKit too. Campagnolo has always been weak on documentation and terminology. In this case, 'HO' for a rear changer means the upper pivot casting OD is minimized to clear a through-axle. My pet peeves are using 'Record' for twenty or more different products since 1960[1] and not marking the part number on the part (something Shimano does rigorously). [1]Typical telephone call here begins, "I have a Record Whatzit" "Which Record?" That is really odd - what does the oversized axles have to do with "hydraulically optimized"? I looked through the manual trying to discover how you would bleed the brakes and there wasn't even anything on how to thread the damn cables though the levers to replace them. If the Potenza didn't meet my requirements and cost so little I would change over to Shimano. That is really odd - what does the oversized axles have to do with "hydraulically optimized"? The first version had an upper pivot casting which could interfere with big fat through axles. Space is tight! http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html The current "HO" rear changer has a smaller OD on the upper pivot casting. I'm guessing that "big fat through axles" are predominantly used with (hydraulic) disc brakes? Yep. Frame and frame end designers like through axle with disc to ensure correct alignment. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 The disk brakes can brake so violently that they pull the old style open bottom axles out of the fork slots. This was one of the things I was complaining about. On the work stand I was able to see this starting and could really tighten the quick releases. With the advent of aluminum quick releases I have even pulled the rear wheel out of the angular wheel slots by climbing hard. So now I am always careful to tighten the quick releases as tight as they will go without threatening to break them. |
#24
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 10:59:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 12:15:29 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 8:33:42 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 8:06:14 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:11:48 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 5:20:49 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/12/2019 6:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: I think that I'm going to change my flat bar bike over to a drop bar. There were no road shifters with hydraulic brakes until after I had put it together. (Or maybe they were so frightfully expensive we didn't move in the same spheres) The problem appears to be that it is a 10 speed and the only hydraulic shifter I can find appear to be either 11 speed or Di2. Were 10 speed hydraulic shifters even made? I really would hate to have to change over to 11 speeds. Next time you need a chain/cassette just go to 11: https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-po...1-speed-ergos/ Same hub, quick upgrade. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Andrew - I ordered that Potenza and it was not a hydraulic lever. It is something that is called "hydraulically optimized" and that has something to do with the rear derailleur and not the hydraulic disk brakes it appears. It is made to use rim brakes or cable operated disks. If you buy the right Potenza lever, it is hydraulic. I can ride over to Universal and get you a set. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...iABEgJKRvD_BwE I don't know why you would want to spend $600 USD on hydraulic levers, though. == Jay Beattie. The Hydraulic disk Potenza levers are $128 from Bike Kit Pro so when I get the refund back from Wiggl.com I'll call them up and make sure I am ordering the correct part. You're not ordering the correct part for $128 USD. Look at the site again. The Potenza levers work like cheap Shimnano levers. You can shift up the cassette 2 or 3 gears at a time but only down one at a time. This might not make a difference with an 11-32 though. Perhaps the ratios are so wide that you don't need to change more than one at a time. I remember that the 8-speeds were like that. -- Jay Beattie. It wouldn't seem so but here it is: https://www.probikekit.com/component...e+STI+Shifters I don't know how they could sell a PAIR of hydro levers for $128 USD. That just seems wrong unless Campy has gone super-discount. Plus don't you need calipers? I don't know if you can mix and match levers and calipers. -- Jay Beattie. |
#25
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 9:55:23 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/23/2019 1:13 AM, James wrote: I'm guessing that "big fat through axles" are predominantly used with (hydraulic) disc brakes? Yep. Frame and frame end designers like through axle with disc to ensure correct alignment. That's interesting, I didn't think there was any linkage between the introduction of disc brakes and through axles. I was under the impression that fat axles were introduced to simply make the bike stiffer (of course the cynic in me supposes it was also to drive customers to replace old systems), and the alleged 'safety' of through axles systems. If you look at what the UCI pro teams are riding this year, most have have disc brakes, but not all do, though all are mandated to the through axle design for the alleged safety aspect. |
#26
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 11:15:32 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 10:59:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 12:15:29 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 8:33:42 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 8:06:14 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:11:48 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 5:20:49 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/12/2019 6:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: I think that I'm going to change my flat bar bike over to a drop bar. There were no road shifters with hydraulic brakes until after I had put it together. (Or maybe they were so frightfully expensive we didn't move in the same spheres) The problem appears to be that it is a 10 speed and the only hydraulic shifter I can find appear to be either 11 speed or Di2. Were 10 speed hydraulic shifters even made? I really would hate to have to change over to 11 speeds. Next time you need a chain/cassette just go to 11: https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-po...1-speed-ergos/ Same hub, quick upgrade. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Andrew - I ordered that Potenza and it was not a hydraulic lever. It is something that is called "hydraulically optimized" and that has something to do with the rear derailleur and not the hydraulic disk brakes it appears. It is made to use rim brakes or cable operated disks. If you buy the right Potenza lever, it is hydraulic. I can ride over to Universal and get you a set. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...iABEgJKRvD_BwE I don't know why you would want to spend $600 USD on hydraulic levers, though. == Jay Beattie. The Hydraulic disk Potenza levers are $128 from Bike Kit Pro so when I get the refund back from Wiggl.com I'll call them up and make sure I am ordering the correct part. You're not ordering the correct part for $128 USD. Look at the site again. The Potenza levers work like cheap Shimnano levers. You can shift up the cassette 2 or 3 gears at a time but only down one at a time. This might not make a difference with an 11-32 though. Perhaps the ratios are so wide that you don't need to change more than one at a time. I remember that the 8-speeds were like that. -- Jay Beattie. It wouldn't seem so but here it is: https://www.probikekit.com/component...e+STI+Shifters I don't know how they could sell a PAIR of hydro levers for $128 USD. That just seems wrong unless Campy has gone super-discount. Plus don't you need calipers? I don't know if you can mix and match levers and calipers. -- Jay Beattie. I just contacted them and they said that they are not hydraulic despite the as saying "Hydraulic Master Cylinder Bleeding Port On The Top Of The Ergopower " |
#27
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On 23/9/19 11:45 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 11:13:21 PM UTC-7, James wrote: I'm guessing that "big fat through axles" are predominantly used with (hydraulic) disc brakes? Seems like a reasonable guess. Shimano just uses a different RD design now with no need for a special model for through axles. Rather than a different model RD, it just launched its whole new gravel group -- which I think is ugly. https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shi...pset-launched/ The clutch RD is nice, and if I were using monster tires, the revised chain line would be nice, too -- but I'm not. I think several of the Shimano parts are ugly. The big knob on the STI levers and the chunky crank spider arms that demand only Shimano rings otherwise they look really crap. A mate bought a bike recently, covered in Shimano stuff, and it has a brake cable to hydraulic converter on the handlebars. Talk about ugly! Nothing wrong with cable actuated discs on a road/gravel bike, especially with callipers that move both pads in at once (e.g. TRP Spyre). I find elegance in minimalist parts. Chunky doesn't do it for me on a bicycle. -- JS |
#28
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On 9/23/2019 9:29 PM, James wrote:
On 23/9/19 11:45 pm, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 22, 2019 at 11:13:21 PM UTC-7, James wrote: I'm guessing that "big fat through axles" are predominantly used with (hydraulic) disc brakes? Seems like a reasonable guess. Shimano just uses a different RD design now with no need for a special model for through axles. Rather than a different model RD, it just launched its whole new gravel group -- which I think is ugly. https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shi...pset-launched/ The clutch RD is nice, and if I were using monster tires, the revised chain line would be nice, too -- but I'm not. I think several of the Shimano parts are ugly. The big knob on the STI levers and the chunky crank spider arms that demand only Shimano rings otherwise they look really crap. A mate bought a bike recently, covered in Shimano stuff, and it has a brake cable to hydraulic converter on the handlebars. Talk about ugly! Nothing wrong with cable actuated discs on a road/gravel bike, especially with callipers that move both pads in at once (e.g. TRP Spyre). I find elegance in minimalist parts. Chunky doesn't do it for me on a bicycle. Cable to hydraulic can be done with elegance if that's what he wants: http://www.yokozunausa.com/ulrodibrimo.html -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#29
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
On 24/9/19 10:45 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/23/2019 9:29 PM, James wrote: I find elegance in minimalist parts.Â* Chunky doesn't do it for me on a bicycle. Cable to hydraulic can be done with elegance if that's what he wants: http://www.yokozunausa.com/ulrodibrimo.html I don't think he's too concerned. -- JS |
#30
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Drop Bar Hydraulic Disk
AMuzi wrote:
Cable to hydraulic can be done with elegance if that's what he wants: http://www.yokozunausa.com/ulrodibrimo.html My limited experience with those is that they're unreliable (the master cylinder adjuster fails). Tektro HyRd calipers do the same job with perhaps less elegance, but fewer problems. |
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