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You really couldn't make it up...



 
 
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  #61  
Old July 17th 13, 07:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 19:44:47 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 17/07/2013 18:29, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:22:22 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently
ignore one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only
status of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try
again: or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you
are right. It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving
out duff gen.

1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only
footways by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do
infrequently is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we
can all agree, it does happen.

It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some
accidentally go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite
deliberately.

It is very rare that cyclists ignore motorway restrictions, some
accidentally stray onto motorways, but learner motorists do it quite
deliberately.

Do you have any proof of that?


Unfortunately there is no distinct crime code for learner drivers on
the motorway.


You're wrong (again). It is an offence (a breach of the motorway
regulations) for a learner driver to drive on a motorway.

And the accompanying qualified driver would also be guilty of an offence.


Please feel free to correct me, but as I understand it, the offence
code for a learner driver on the motorway and driving a prohibited
agricultural vehicle on the motorway are under the same offence code
(MW10).

I am very happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong.
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  #62  
Old July 17th 13, 08:10 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 19:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 19:44:47 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 17/07/2013 18:29, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:22:22 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently
ignore one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only
status of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try
again: or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you
are right. It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving
out duff gen.

1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only
footways by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do
infrequently is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we
can all agree, it does happen.

It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some
accidentally go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite
deliberately.

It is very rare that cyclists ignore motorway restrictions, some
accidentally stray onto motorways, but learner motorists do it quite
deliberately.

Do you have any proof of that?

Unfortunately there is no distinct crime code for learner drivers on
the motorway.


You're wrong (again). It is an offence (a breach of the motorway
regulations) for a learner driver to drive on a motorway.

And the accompanying qualified driver would also be guilty of an offence.


Please feel free to correct me, but as I understand it, the offence
code for a learner driver on the motorway and driving a prohibited
agricultural vehicle on the motorway are under the same offence code
(MW10).


That may well be how those two quite separate offences are listed as
endorsements on a driving licence (I wouldn't know that and would defer
to anyone with direct experience of them, such as your good self). I
mean... who cares?

But the rule prohibiting learner drivers on motorways and the rule
prohibiting certain classes of vehicle on motorways (irrespective of the
qualifications and experience of the driver) are quite separate provisions.

For information, the rule prohibiting learner drivers on motorways is
Regulation 11 of the Motorway Traffic (England & Wales) Regulations
1982, whereas the provision with respect to prohibited vehicles
(bicycles, etc) is made by Regulation 3 (1), read in conjunction with
Regulation 3 (4) and with the contents of Schedule 4 to the Highways Act
1980.

I hope this is helpful and explains the position.

I am very happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong.


Indeed. You must be positively ecstatic.

  #63  
Old July 17th 13, 08:25 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mrcheerful[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,662
Default You really couldn't make it up...

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 18:36:51 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:22:22 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently
ignore one-way working, plus red traffic lights,
pedestrian-only status of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try
again: or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you
are right. It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be
giving out duff gen.

1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so,
do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only
footways by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do
infrequently is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we
can all agree, it does happen.

It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some
accidentally go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite
deliberately.

It is very rare that cyclists ignore motorway restrictions, some
accidentally stray onto motorways, but learner motorists do it
quite deliberately.

Do you have any proof of that?

Unfortunately there is no distinct crime code for learner drivers on
the motorway.

We do know that there are approximately 9.5 million recorded
motoring offences committed each year, and this is likely to be a
vast underestimate of the actual number of crimes committed by
motorists.

Indeed, it could be said that motorists are the biggest single group
of criminals in the country, with few exceptions.


To get back to the subject:
so there may not be any deliberate L drivers on the motorways at all?


What do you think? Is it an unheard of event?


I have never read about it or seen it on telly, so yes, it is unheard of.
It is you that said it happens, have you heard of it?


  #64  
Old July 17th 13, 09:28 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 12:37:15 UTC+1, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith

wrote:



On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster


wrote:




snip






In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore


one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status of a


facility, etc?




Motor vehicle.






Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again: or perhaps


provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right. It would be bad form


for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.




1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:


which is illegal when using a registered vehicle or acting as a licenced to drive person.


between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.

2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways


When the footway is part of the road in that it is adjacent to the carriageway, parking on the footway has not generally been legislated against for small cars. Driving along the footway in preference to the carriageway, even when blocked, is generally illegal, although special circumstances may be used as lawful excuse. There are relatively few pedestrian only footways and they are not typically accessible by motor-car, but there may be problems with motor-bikes.

by driving onto and parking on them.

3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.


Many prefer to remain ignorant of "limits" and their "speed".
It is well known that going faster than a galloping horse will suck the life out your lungs and so policy enforcers claims of 120mph are clearly fictitious.



The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently

is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it

does happen.


I may make a willful contribution, but don't let your mind stray into having you believe that I am ever agreeing. If you ever get thet impression, yoiu are likely missing my point.

  #65  
Old July 17th 13, 09:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wednesday, 17 July 2013 15:02:18 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith


wrote:




On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster


wrote:




snip






In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore


one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status


of a facility, etc?




Motor vehicle.






Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again:


or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right.


It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.




1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:


between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.


2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways


by driving onto and parking on them.


3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.




The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently


is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it


does happen.




It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some accidentally

go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite deliberately.


Ah, so you have been recruited by the thought police!
  #66  
Old July 17th 13, 09:33 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Pristine Bruise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default You really couldn't make it up...

JNugent wrote:

On 17/07/2013 12:53, Pristine Bruise wrote:
John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?

If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly
the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.


Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving.


In that case, the cyclist should be punished more severely, since he
cannot so easily plead that it was just one of those things.

IOW, he's more likely to have been trying to do it, or at least to have
been far more reckless as to whether or not it happened.


Thank you for your replies on this issue.

I remain, however, of the opinion that, generally speaking, driving a
motor vehicle the wrong way through a one-way system is a more
reckless act that doing the same thing riding a bicycle. I believe
that to be so because (as my common sense tells me) should anything go
wrong, the driver has the potential to cause far more damage to other
people and property than the cyclist has. I also believe that all this
is already reflected by the Law in the way that transgressors in their
respective vehicles are treated (punished).

No amount of ridicule will change any of that but please feel free to
carry on anyway.

--
Alexis
  #67  
Old July 17th 13, 09:50 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,000
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 18:46:59 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


To get back to the subject:
so there may not be any deliberate L drivers on the motorways at all?


What do you think? Is it an unheard of event?



You are a fool. He did not suggest that it was unheard of.

You said: "learner motorists do it quite deliberately."

Feel free to list the cases where that has been shown to be true.

  #70  
Old July 18th 13, 10:50 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Squashme
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,146
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:48:25 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 17/07/2013 12:53, Pristine Bruise wrote:

John Benn wrote:




"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message


...


Bertie Wooster wrote:




On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"


wrote:




Bertie Wooster wrote:


On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"


wrote:




JNugent wrote:


PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been


involved in a traffic accident):




QUOTE:


Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the


initial collision and dangerous driving?


He's clearly guilty of both.


ENDQUOTE




How about High Treason as well?




QUOTE:


And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by


driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no


doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.


ENDQUOTE




I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties


being dealt out to offenders.




Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular


traffic most often ignores one-way working?




A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news


because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.




When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people


before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?






You are evading the question asked, how unusual.




But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only


assume, is something you can support with data.




Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in


this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather


than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?




If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly


the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.




Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less


when cycling than driving.




In that case, the cyclist should be punished more severely, since he

cannot so easily plead that it was just one of those things.



IOW, he's more likely to have been trying to do it, or at least to have

been far more reckless as to whether or not it happened.


Wrong. The motorist should be punished more severely because, knowing that his vehicle was far more likely to kill, he still drove recklessly, with full awareness that, in the event of an "accident", he would be well protected by his chosen vehicle but his victim might not have that advantage. Sadly motorists think that, because they have bought an advantage over others, their privilege should extend to an immunity from the foreseeable negative consequences of this advantage.

Motorists seem to think that the bull and the china shop can be equally to blame, and indeed wish to blame the china more for its negligent fragility, and the shop for being sited where a bull might wish to travel.
 




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