Hot nipples (wheel truing)

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 11:00:08 -0800 (PST), pH wrote:

I'm planning to put a drop of transmission fluid on each nipple then
heat it briefly w/ a propane torch...

That will set fire to the transmission fluid, rim tape, or both. If
you to the torch job with the tube and tire still installed on the
rim, add those to the list of possible flammables.

Want to borrow my truing stand and instruction books? Once you start
tightening the spokes, things are going to move, not necessarily in a
desirable direction. You're going to need a way to true the wheel.

A potential screwup is to apply twisting torsion to the spokes with
the spoke wrench. The torsion will release as you ride, but also
loosen the spokes slightly. You might start your ride with a properly
trued wheel, but by the time the ride is over, the be loose and the
wheel out of true.

Grab a spoke with a pair of vice grips near the nipple. Adjust the
nipple, but don't let the spoke rotate. I usually true the wheel with
the rim tape, tube, and tire removed. That gives me access to the
screwdriver slot in the head of the nipple[1]. Use a screwdriver or
home made tool[2], to adjust the tension, instead of the spoke wrench.
If the spokes loosened by themselves, you probably don't need or want
any oil in the nipples. Lots of YouTube videos on truing wheels.

[1] This is the point where I usually discover that my spokes are too
long and sticking out of the nipple.

[2] Something like this, except I made my own from a hex driver bit:
http://www.icetoolz.com/ec99/rwd1111/product.asp?prodid=12S4&category_id=73


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 21:35:44 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 09/02/2020 19:33, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2020 11:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
It is easy enough to tight one side a little and loosen the other side
a little and maintain a centered wheel.

?? If you tighten one side and loosen the other, the rim will shift
toward the side you tightened.

How much it shifts depends on various factors. I guess you may still
call it "a centered wheel" if your tolerance regarding "centered" is
generous enough. But it's very unlikely to be centered better than before.

If it goes around it's centered :-)

It's called a "rodeo bike":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALSiGbcaKE

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 11:16:40 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2020 at 10:33:26 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2020 11:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:


It is easy enough to tight one side a little and loosen the other side a little and maintain a centered wheel.

?? If you tighten one side and loosen the other, the rim will shift
toward the side you tightened.

How much it shifts depends on various factors. I guess you may still
call it "a centered wheel" if your tolerance regarding "centered" is
generous enough. But it's very unlikely to be centered better than before.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tell me all about wheel building Frank. I really need to know about that.

Ah Tommy, as I so frequently tell you it is better to remain silent
and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it...

Or have you forgotten the trials and tribulations you have recounted
with your Cheap Chinese Wheels? Given the problems you recounted, yes,
you do "need to know about that".
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2/9/2020 2:16 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, February 9, 2020 at 10:33:26 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2020 11:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:


It is easy enough to tight one side a little and loosen the other side a little and maintain a centered wheel.

?? If you tighten one side and loosen the other, the rim will shift
toward the side you tightened.

How much it shifts depends on various factors. I guess you may still
call it "a centered wheel" if your tolerance regarding "centered" is
generous enough. But it's very unlikely to be centered better than before.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tell me all about wheel building Frank. I really need to know about that.

Perhaps you can tell us what you do with a wheel's spokes to move a rim
3mm to the left?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 14:41:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 21:35:44 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 09/02/2020 19:33, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2020 11:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
It is easy enough to tight one side a little and loosen the other side
a little and maintain a centered wheel.

?? If you tighten one side and loosen the other, the rim will shift
toward the side you tightened.

How much it shifts depends on various factors. I guess you may still
call it "a centered wheel" if your tolerance regarding "centered" is
generous enough. But it's very unlikely to be centered better than before.

If it goes around it's centered :-)

It's called a "rodeo bike":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALSiGbcaKE

Eccentric wheels are cool:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentric-hub_scooter
https://www.bikes4fun.org/product-page/eccentric-horse-bike
https://youtu.be/-p6TIIw_zPw?t=163
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxM22KdWX_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLOnZ0bxrYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TdMKCOrmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83HICCME4Wc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeOS9pG6vjU


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2/9/2020 6:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 14:41:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 21:35:44 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 09/02/2020 19:33, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2020 11:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
It is easy enough to tight one side a little and loosen the other side
a little and maintain a centered wheel.

?? If you tighten one side and loosen the other, the rim will shift
toward the side you tightened.

How much it shifts depends on various factors. I guess you may still
call it "a centered wheel" if your tolerance regarding "centered" is
generous enough. But it's very unlikely to be centered better than before.

If it goes around it's centered :-)

It's called a "rodeo bike":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALSiGbcaKE

Eccentric wheels are cool:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentric-hub_scooter

How many here have ridden an Ingo?

My hand is raised. (Riding one is a heck of a workout!)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 09/02/2020 23:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Grab a spoke with a pair of vice grips near the nipple. Adjust the
nipple, but don't let the spoke rotate. I usually true the wheel with
the rim tape, tube, and tire removed. That gives me access to the
screwdriver slot in the head of the nipple[1]. Use a screwdriver or
home made tool[2], to adjust the tension, instead of the spoke wrench.
If the spokes loosened by themselves, you probably don't need or want
any oil in the nipples. Lots of YouTube videos on truing wheels.

[1] This is the point where I usually discover that my spokes are too
long and sticking out of the nipple.

[2] Something like this, except I made my own from a hex driver bit:
http://www.icetoolz.com/ec99/rwd1111/product.asp?prodid=12S4&category_id=73

This is very true[1], it really isn't hard. Plenty of time, a nice
cuppa, and gently, gently teasy monkey.

Oooh! OOOH! Miss! Miss! He posted a link to nipple wrenches![2]

[1] See what I did there?
[2] Which wasn't what I was expecting.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 6:13:51 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 15:58:52 -0800 (PST), pH wrote:

On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 12:46:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2020 1:00 PM, pH wrote:
I note my non-drive side spokes are looser than I'd like and plan to give them a 1/4 turn.

I don't think it should affect my centering much, but, anyway,
since it's been a long time I'm planning to put a drop of transmission fluid on each nipple then heat it briefly w/ a propane torch, or maybe vice-versa, heat then oil, just so I can make sure they are not too bound up..

Good idea? Bad idea?
I'll hold off a day until some opinions roll in.

ph in Aptos


That will move your rim off center to the left so if that's
what you need, go right ahead.

I was hoping it would not be enough to be noticeable. The drive side are plenty tight enough.


Also, what did you use to lubricate the nipples when you
built it? Do you know that they do not turn easily now?

It was some sort of blue gunk in a small 'vaseline' style container that had an ammonia
odor to it and dried to a powdery solid. I forget what it's called w/o going out to my garage.

Heat seems a poor choice. Here, we detension the whole
wheel, lubricate with fresh linseed oil and then bring it
back to correct tension. Fighting sticky threads a few at a
time seems a poor use of time to me.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Okay, thanks for the comments, everybody. I often have the "If it's not broken, fix it until it is." experience when I get these ideas in my head. (Ask me about the time I decided I should clean the points in my Morris Minor's voltage regulator.)

pH

One might question, is the wheel straight? is the wheel centered? does
the rim move laterally when you corner?
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes, the wheels is straight w/ no 'hop' It is centered---I can't be described as "spirited" in any of my cornering; my frame seems to like "all ahead, flank speed". I'd just like them a tad tighter. Jobst pointed out that only when they are too loose that they will loosen over time since the wheel is a pre-stressed structure he said, and that anything you do to it during use only lessens those tensions.
It's probably okay. See my "fix until broke" comment earlier.

Note to Frank: Yes, I've ridden an Ingo! They *are* a workout.

Comment to John: We've all heard about the soldier going on the shooting rampage. Hope that you guys live no where near where it happened. What terrible news.

pH in Aptos

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 18:47:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

How many here have ridden an Ingo?
My hand is raised. (Riding one is a heck of a workout!)

Not me. However, I did attempt to ride an AquaSkipper (Wave Runner),
and failed miserably:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/aquaskipper/
https://www.google.com/search?q=aquaskipper

If you get tired of dodging cars on the highways, switch to dodging
boats on the water while riding one of these:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 21:11:06 -0800 (PST), pH wrote:

On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 6:13:51 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 15:58:52 -0800 (PST), pH wrote:

On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 12:46:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2020 1:00 PM, pH wrote:
I note my non-drive side spokes are looser than I'd like and plan to give them a 1/4 turn.

I don't think it should affect my centering much, but, anyway,
since it's been a long time I'm planning to put a drop of transmission fluid on each nipple then heat it briefly w/ a propane torch, or maybe vice-versa, heat then oil, just so I can make sure they are not too bound up.

Good idea? Bad idea?
I'll hold off a day until some opinions roll in.

ph in Aptos


That will move your rim off center to the left so if that's
what you need, go right ahead.

I was hoping it would not be enough to be noticeable. The drive side are plenty tight enough.


Also, what did you use to lubricate the nipples when you
built it? Do you know that they do not turn easily now?

It was some sort of blue gunk in a small 'vaseline' style container that had an ammonia
odor to it and dried to a powdery solid. I forget what it's called w/o going out to my garage.

Heat seems a poor choice. Here, we detension the whole
wheel, lubricate with fresh linseed oil and then bring it
back to correct tension. Fighting sticky threads a few at a
time seems a poor use of time to me.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Okay, thanks for the comments, everybody. I often have the "If it's not broken, fix it until it is." experience when I get these ideas in my head. (Ask me about the time I decided I should clean the points in my Morris Minor's voltage regulator.)

pH

One might question, is the wheel straight? is the wheel centered? does
the rim move laterally when you corner?
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes, the wheels is straight w/ no 'hop' It is centered---I can't be described as "spirited" in any of my cornering; my frame seems to like "all ahead, flank speed". I'd just like them a tad tighter. Jobst pointed out that only when they are too loose that they will loosen over time since the wheel is a pre-stressed structure he said, and that anything you do to it during use only lessens those tensions.
It's probably okay. See my "fix until broke" comment earlier.

Note to Frank: Yes, I've ridden an Ingo! They *are* a workout.

Comment to John: We've all heard about the soldier going on the shooting rampage. Hope that you guys live no where near where it happened. What terrible news.

pH in Aptos

It was in the second largest city in Thailand about 200 km from the
little town where we live and every time we visit Korat (commonly used
name for Nakorn Ratchasima :-) we always have lunch at the Terminal 21
mall as the "food court" has good and cheap food.

The whole episode is very puzzling to most Thais as mass shootings
really aren't their style. It has been said that the guy first shot
his army commander in a dispute over some land, which is perfectly
understandable, but then he came to town with a M-60 machine gun and
started shooting strangers which no one can understand.

Two guys posted remarks on the web in imitation of those posted by the
shooter and the police arrested them and charged them with violating
the Computer Crime Act, violating Section 392 of the Criminal Code by
causing public fear, which is punishable by one month's jail and/or a
fine of up to 10,000 baht. One of them also lost his job after being
fired by his boss for showing disrespect to the families of victims
killed in the mass shooting.
--
cheers,

John B.