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#1
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Disk Brakes Again
I don't know how many of you watched the Amgen Tour of California but I think it was a Frenchman that got way hell and gone off of the front on Stage 5 I think.
As he was descending a rather long and steep climb he looked like an absolute beginner. All of his lines were screwed up and he almost went off the road several times. On one occasion he ran off of the road and up onto the sloped dirt siding. I could not understand how someone that could ride 7 minutes off the front of a 140 mile race was so amateurish descending. He wasn't tired because he kept his lead for a very long way after the descent finishing with a full 7 minute lead. Two days ago during some rain I was looking at videos and ran across one of them by a pro that showed himself descending almost identically amateurishly. The same bad lines though the corners and the same very dangerous lines.. He blamed this entirely on his disk brakes. He said climbing they drag and make noises and descending they cannot be relied upon to slow you properly. The upshot is he said that NO PRO would choose disk brakes over rim brakes and that this was just another gadget to up the price of a bike. When I was talking here about how too F-ing powerful the large disks were and how much better the V-brakes were on a cross bike I got a whole lot of static. Well it appears that the same problem is on road bikes with the smaller disks. They also have an aero disadvantage and I can tell you that the new bikes are so aero that you have to be careful descending in a group because you keep closing up on those in front. The original idea was to have an alternate way to brake so that you wouldn't wear out the braking surface of carbon wheels. But using the artificial cork brake pads allows you to use a set of carbon wheels as long as you can the super-light aluminum wheels with standard brake pads. Although we are presently in a trade dispute with China I don't expect that to last long and carbon wheels from China only seem to have one problem - they do not have much spoke tension and so move around too much in side winds. And they are spectacularly cheap. While the US made carbon wheels are slightly more aero it isn't by much and unless you're riding TT's it isn't worth paying six to eight times the price. Another problem - rim brakes put all of the braking forces at the strongest portion of the bike. Disks put the forces at the weakest. This forces manufacturers to make much heavier forks and rear stays. And the axles have gone to much larger sizes that cannot be used with quick releases. Pro mechanics no long change out wheels on bikes but make entire bike changes and that costs a lot more time than it used to. All in all I think that disks are nothing more than something different to buy if you're a non-mechanical enthusiast that is likely to go with the flow. |
#2
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Disk Brakes Again
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I don't know how many of you watched the Amgen Tour of California but I think it was a Frenchman that got way hell and gone off of the front on Stage 5 I think. As he was descending a rather long and steep climb he looked like an absolute beginner. All of his lines were screwed up and he almost went off the road several times. On one occasion he ran off of the road and up onto the sloped dirt siding. I could not understand how someone that could ride 7 minutes off the front of a 140 mile race was so amateurish descending. He wasn't tired because he kept his lead for a very long way after the descent finishing with a full 7 minute lead. Two days ago during some rain I was looking at videos and ran across one of them by a pro that showed himself descending almost identically amateurishly. The same bad lines though the corners and the same very dangerous lines. He blamed this entirely on his disk brakes. He said climbing they drag and make noises and descending they cannot be relied upon to slow you properly. The upshot is he said that NO PRO would choose disk brakes over rim brakes and that this was just another gadget to up the price of a bike. When I was talking here about how too F-ing powerful the large disks were and how much better the V-brakes were on a cross bike I got a whole lot of static. Well it appears that the same problem is on road bikes with the smaller disks. They also have an aero disadvantage and I can tell you that the new bikes are so aero that you have to be careful descending in a group because you keep closing up on those in front. The original idea was to have an alternate way to brake so that you wouldn't wear out the braking surface of carbon wheels. But using the artificial cork brake pads allows you to use a set of carbon wheels as long as you can the super-light aluminum wheels with standard brake pads. Although we are presently in a trade dispute with China I don't expect that to last long and carbon wheels from China only seem to have one problem - they do not have much spoke tension and so move around too much in side winds. And they are spectacularly cheap. While the US made carbon wheels are slightly more aero it isn't by much and unless you're riding TT's it isn't worth paying six to eight times the price. Another problem - rim brakes put all of the braking forces at the strongest portion of the bike. Disks put the forces at the weakest. This forces manufacturers to make much heavier forks and rear stays. And the axles have gone to much larger sizes that cannot be used with quick releases. Pro mechanics no long change out wheels on bikes but make entire bike changes and that costs a lot more time than it used to. All in all I think that disks are nothing more than something different to buy if you're a non-mechanical enthusiast that is likely to go with the flow. Here is what some pros say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_EPa0ZuSM Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences.. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. -- Jay Beattie. |
#3
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Disk Brakes Again
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:07:31 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: I don't know how many of you watched the Amgen Tour of California but I think it was a Frenchman that got way hell and gone off of the front on Stage 5 I think. As he was descending a rather long and steep climb he looked like an absolute beginner. All of his lines were screwed up and he almost went off the road several times. On one occasion he ran off of the road and up onto the sloped dirt siding. I could not understand how someone that could ride 7 minutes off the front of a 140 mile race was so amateurish descending. He wasn't tired because he kept his lead for a very long way after the descent finishing with a full 7 minute lead. Two days ago during some rain I was looking at videos and ran across one of them by a pro that showed himself descending almost identically amateurishly. The same bad lines though the corners and the same very dangerous lines. He blamed this entirely on his disk brakes. He said climbing they drag and make noises and descending they cannot be relied upon to slow you properly. The upshot is he said that NO PRO would choose disk brakes over rim brakes and that this was just another gadget to up the price of a bike. When I was talking here about how too F-ing powerful the large disks were and how much better the V-brakes were on a cross bike I got a whole lot of static. Well it appears that the same problem is on road bikes with the smaller disks. They also have an aero disadvantage and I can tell you that the new bikes are so aero that you have to be careful descending in a group because you keep closing up on those in front. The original idea was to have an alternate way to brake so that you wouldn't wear out the braking surface of carbon wheels. But using the artificial cork brake pads allows you to use a set of carbon wheels as long as you can the super-light aluminum wheels with standard brake pads. Although we are presently in a trade dispute with China I don't expect that to last long and carbon wheels from China only seem to have one problem - they do not have much spoke tension and so move around too much in side winds. And they are spectacularly cheap. While the US made carbon wheels are slightly more aero it isn't by much and unless you're riding TT's it isn't worth paying six to eight times the price. Another problem - rim brakes put all of the braking forces at the strongest portion of the bike. Disks put the forces at the weakest. This forces manufacturers to make much heavier forks and rear stays. And the axles have gone to much larger sizes that cannot be used with quick releases. Pro mechanics no long change out wheels on bikes but make entire bike changes and that costs a lot more time than it used to. All in all I think that disks are nothing more than something different to buy if you're a non-mechanical enthusiast that is likely to go with the flow. Here is what some pros say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_EPa0ZuSM Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. -- Jay Beattie. I was caught in heavy rain last week with my aero bike with CF rims and rimbrakes. Braking power was almost non existing compared to Alu rims and rim brakes. Every corner was a hazard and this was on flat terrain. CF rims and disk brakes are a winner by far in wet conditions. Since CF aero rims are the norm in the Pro peleton disk brakes are going to stay. You better get used to it. In the mountain stage in the Giro yesterday a lot of riders used diskbrakes. Weather conditions were dry btw. |
#4
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Disk Brakes Again
wrote:
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:07:31 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: I don't know how many of you watched the Amgen Tour of California but I think it was a Frenchman that got way hell and gone off of the front on Stage 5 I think. As he was descending a rather long and steep climb he looked like an absolute beginner. All of his lines were screwed up and he almost went off the road several times. On one occasion he ran off of the road and up onto the sloped dirt siding. I could not understand how someone that could ride 7 minutes off the front of a 140 mile race was so amateurish descending. He wasn't tired because he kept his lead for a very long way after the descent finishing with a full 7 minute lead. Two days ago during some rain I was looking at videos and ran across one of them by a pro that showed himself descending almost identically amateurishly. The same bad lines though the corners and the same very dangerous lines. He blamed this entirely on his disk brakes. He said climbing they drag and make noises and descending they cannot be relied upon to slow you properly. The upshot is he said that NO PRO would choose disk brakes over rim brakes and that this was just another gadget to up the price of a bike. When I was talking here about how too F-ing powerful the large disks were and how much better the V-brakes were on a cross bike I got a whole lot of static. Well it appears that the same problem is on road bikes with the smaller disks. They also have an aero disadvantage and I can tell you that the new bikes are so aero that you have to be careful descending in a group because you keep closing up on those in front. The original idea was to have an alternate way to brake so that you wouldn't wear out the braking surface of carbon wheels. But using the artificial cork brake pads allows you to use a set of carbon wheels as long as you can the super-light aluminum wheels with standard brake pads. Although we are presently in a trade dispute with China I don't expect that to last long and carbon wheels from China only seem to have one problem - they do not have much spoke tension and so move around too much in side winds. And they are spectacularly cheap. While the US made carbon wheels are slightly more aero it isn't by much and unless you're riding TT's it isn't worth paying six to eight times the price. Another problem - rim brakes put all of the braking forces at the strongest portion of the bike. Disks put the forces at the weakest. This forces manufacturers to make much heavier forks and rear stays. And the axles have gone to much larger sizes that cannot be used with quick releases. Pro mechanics no long change out wheels on bikes but make entire bike changes and that costs a lot more time than it used to. All in all I think that disks are nothing more than something different to buy if you're a non-mechanical enthusiast that is likely to go with the flow. Here is what some pros say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_EPa0ZuSM Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. -- Jay Beattie. I was caught in heavy rain last week with my aero bike with CF rims and rimbrakes. Braking power was almost non existing compared to Alu rims and rim brakes. Every corner was a hazard and this was on flat terrain. CF rims and disk brakes are a winner by far in wet conditions. Since CF aero rims are the norm in the Pro peleton disk brakes are going to stay. You better get used to it. In the mountain stage in the Giro yesterday a lot of riders used diskbrakes. Weather conditions were dry btw. What the pros want is in side show really, after all they use tubs etc, and have support vehicles etc. Disks have been pushed by manufacturers to the pro peloton, to catch up with the growth of disks coming, from CX/gravel, bikes has been for few years now. Roger Merriman |
#5
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Disk Brakes Again
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 3:11:02 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:07:31 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: I don't know how many of you watched the Amgen Tour of California but I think it was a Frenchman that got way hell and gone off of the front on Stage 5 I think. As he was descending a rather long and steep climb he looked like an absolute beginner. All of his lines were screwed up and he almost went off the road several times. On one occasion he ran off of the road and up onto the sloped dirt siding. I could not understand how someone that could ride 7 minutes off the front of a 140 mile race was so amateurish descending. He wasn't tired because he kept his lead for a very long way after the descent finishing with a full 7 minute lead. Two days ago during some rain I was looking at videos and ran across one of them by a pro that showed himself descending almost identically amateurishly. The same bad lines though the corners and the same very dangerous lines. He blamed this entirely on his disk brakes. He said climbing they drag and make noises and descending they cannot be relied upon to slow you properly. The upshot is he said that NO PRO would choose disk brakes over rim brakes and that this was just another gadget to up the price of a bike. When I was talking here about how too F-ing powerful the large disks were and how much better the V-brakes were on a cross bike I got a whole lot of static. Well it appears that the same problem is on road bikes with the smaller disks. They also have an aero disadvantage and I can tell you that the new bikes are so aero that you have to be careful descending in a group because you keep closing up on those in front. The original idea was to have an alternate way to brake so that you wouldn't wear out the braking surface of carbon wheels. But using the artificial cork brake pads allows you to use a set of carbon wheels as long as you can the super-light aluminum wheels with standard brake pads. Although we are presently in a trade dispute with China I don't expect that to last long and carbon wheels from China only seem to have one problem - they do not have much spoke tension and so move around too much in side winds. And they are spectacularly cheap. While the US made carbon wheels are slightly more aero it isn't by much and unless you're riding TT's it isn't worth paying six to eight times the price. Another problem - rim brakes put all of the braking forces at the strongest portion of the bike. Disks put the forces at the weakest. This forces manufacturers to make much heavier forks and rear stays. And the axles have gone to much larger sizes that cannot be used with quick releases. Pro mechanics no long change out wheels on bikes but make entire bike changes and that costs a lot more time than it used to. All in all I think that disks are nothing more than something different to buy if you're a non-mechanical enthusiast that is likely to go with the flow. Here is what some pros say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_EPa0ZuSM Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. -- Jay Beattie. I was caught in heavy rain last week with my aero bike with CF rims and rimbrakes. Braking power was almost non existing compared to Alu rims and rim brakes. Every corner was a hazard and this was on flat terrain. CF rims and disk brakes are a winner by far in wet conditions. Since CF aero rims are the norm in the Pro peleton disk brakes are going to stay. You better get used to it. In the mountain stage in the Giro yesterday a lot of riders used diskbrakes. Weather conditions were dry btw. What the pros want is in side show really, after all they use tubs etc, and have support vehicles etc. Disks have been pushed by manufacturers to the pro peloton, to catch up with the growth of disks coming, from CX/gravel, bikes has been for few years now. Roger Merriman Huh? Aerodynamics makes sense, so CF rims make sense, so disk brakes makes sense. Simple. The only reason pro riders are/were reluctant to use disk braces is weight. Lou |
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Disk Brakes Again
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#7
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Disk Brakes Again
On 5/24/2019 10:07 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. Anyone still using rim brakes is standing in the way of human progress. |
#8
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Disk Brakes Again
On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:17:23 -0700, sms
wrote: On 5/24/2019 10:07 AM, jbeattie wrote: snip Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. Anyone still using rim brakes is standing in the way of human progress. You are right! Nearly all the bikes I see at Tesco have disc brakes . It must be the wave of the future. (for Tesco, USians read Walmart) -- cheers, John B. |
#9
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Disk Brakes Again
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:08:24 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:17:23 -0700, sms wrote: On 5/24/2019 10:07 AM, jbeattie wrote: snip Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. Anyone still using rim brakes is standing in the way of human progress. You are right! Nearly all the bikes I see at Tesco have disc brakes . It must be the wave of the future. (for Tesco, USians read Walmart) -- cheers, John B. Given how poorly many bicycles in department stores are set up, I wonder just how effective a department store disc brake actually is? On the trails around here I often see people riding V-brake equipped bicycles. A surprising number of those people have one pair of their V-brakes disconnected because a pad was rubbing on the rim. Scary to think that a department store disc brake is most likely made of inferior parts compared to a bicycle meant to be sold at a bicycle shop. How long do those cheap department store disc brake pads last? Is there any warning that an unskilled rider would have of impending pad failure/rapid wear? How bout the rotors themselves, are they also made from relatively cheap material? It'd be interesting to know how many lone bicyclist crashes were caused by an improperly set up department store bicycle or failure of a cheap department store bicycle component. I've seen many department store bicycles set up with the front quick release so loose that the wheel would wobble or come out of the fork end if it hit a hard bump such as the edge of a pothole. I guess that's partly why "Lawyer Lips" were created. So many things on many department store bicycles are just cheap imitations of quality parts/components on quality bicycles - think front shocks etcetera. Cheers |
#10
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Disk Brakes Again
On Sat, 25 May 2019 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:08:24 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:17:23 -0700, sms wrote: On 5/24/2019 10:07 AM, jbeattie wrote: snip Discs do give better braking with CF rims, they don't heat rim glue, so you don't get sew-ups squirming around on the rims. If I were doing a long descent with lots of braking on sew-ups, I might prefer a disc. Otherwise, on a rapid descent on a racing bike with clinchers on aluminum rims on dry pavement, there is no a whole lot of difference between the two, assuming both are properly adjusted and the pistons lubricated. I own both and don't find much difference, except in ways that are equally bad, e.g. rim brakes grabbing at seams or with contaminants on the rim and discs shuddering or grabbing or screaming. If disc brakes are juiced up to the point where light braking locks up the wheel, then that's a problem. If one is used to the requisite heavy hand to get good rear braking with a cable caliper brake, then that can be a problem with discs. I had to adjust after a couple of fish-tailing experiences. Discs are the clear winner in wet-weather riding, but on dry pavement, it's just a matter of feel and personal preference. In professional racing, there are other considerations. Anyone still using rim brakes is standing in the way of human progress. You are right! Nearly all the bikes I see at Tesco have disc brakes . It must be the wave of the future. (for Tesco, USians read Walmart) -- cheers, John B. Given how poorly many bicycles in department stores are set up, I wonder just how effective a department store disc brake actually is? When we spent a lot of time in Phuket I was sort of the neighborhood bicycle man and used to fix the local kid's bikes. A kid would bring in his bike and complain that the brakes didn't work. I'd have a look at it and adjust the brakes and it would work again. I developed quite a reputation but it was really the guys who assembled the bikes at the department store that were making me look good. On the trails around here I often see people riding V-brake equipped bicycles. A surprising number of those people have one pair of their V-brakes disconnected because a pad was rubbing on the rim. Ah but it is a complex subject. all them wires and levers and things. Hard to fix. But never mind the brakes. A youngish school girl was complaining to my wife about how difficult it was to get up the hill on her new bike - of course what she was doing was talking to my wife, who she knew would talk to me who would fix her bike :-) Anyway, I looked at her bike and it had a 7 speed cassette and was in the highest gear so I asked the girl why she didn't just shift to a lower gear? She had no idea that the bike had gears or how to shift them. I showed her how to shift gears and in a few days she acquired quite a reputation - she could ride her bike up the hill that the boys couldn't :-) Scary to think that a department store disc brake is most likely made of inferior parts compared to a bicycle meant to be sold at a bicycle shop. How long do those cheap department store disc brake pads last? Is there any warning that an unskilled rider would have of impending pad failure/rapid wear? How bout the rotors themselves, are they also made from relatively cheap material? It'd be interesting to know how many lone bicyclist crashes were caused by an improperly set up department store bicycle or failure of a cheap department store bicycle component. I've seen many department store bicycles set up with the front quick release so loose that the wheel would wobble or come out of the fork end if it hit a hard bump such as the edge of a pothole. I guess that's partly why "Lawyer Lips" were created. So many things on many department store bicycles are just cheap imitations of quality parts/components on quality bicycles - think front shocks etcetera. Cheers On the other hand if you want to buy a bicycle you can get a real spiffy looking one down at the department store. Got shock absorbers and everything. Cheap too. -- cheers, John B. |
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