More stupidity.

While I feel sorry for the girl concerned and her family it is hard to
see what Railtrack (?) could do to make this crossing any safer
have cycled across it many times ,in both directions and have
never felt it was at all risky,mind you I do stop if the lights are
flashing, barriers are coming down etc.

Full story at :-
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/in...20050317093650
or

http://tinyurl.com/3nvcm
--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

A truely sad and distressing story.

Given that "The Kirknewton crossing has in the past been labelled the most
notorious in Scotland due to the high instances of accidents and motorists
jumping red lights." it does raise the question what else really does need
to be done in addition to the *technical* safety measures - some mechanism
for raising the social, cultural and emotional engagement in the risks
concerned.

Graham

"soup" wrote in message
k...
While I feel sorry for the girl concerned and her family it is hard to
see what Railtrack (?) could do to make this crossing any safer
have cycled across it many times ,in both directions and have
never felt it was at all risky,mind you I do stop if the lights are
flashing, barriers are coming down etc.

Full story at :-
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/in...20050317093650
or

http://tinyurl.com/3nvcm
--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

Graham Dean wrote:
A truely sad and distressing story.

Given that "The Kirknewton crossing has in the past been labelled the most
notorious in Scotland due to the high instances of accidents and motorists
jumping red lights." it does raise the question what else really does need
to be done in addition to the *technical* safety measures - some mechanism
for raising the social, cultural and emotional engagement in the risks
concerned.

Unfortunately, an incident like this often does just that.

R.

Yep, sad and very true.

I guess the message needs to be sustained in someway as well.

Graham

"Richard" wrote in
message ...
Graham Dean wrote:
A truely sad and distressing story.

Given that "The Kirknewton crossing has in the past been labelled the
most
notorious in Scotland due to the high instances of accidents and
motorists
jumping red lights." it does raise the question what else really does
need
to be done in addition to the *technical* safety measures - some
mechanism
for raising the social, cultural and emotional engagement in the risks
concerned.

Unfortunately, an incident like this often does just that.

R.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:44:54 GMT, soup wrote:

While I feel sorry for the girl concerned and her family it is hard to
see what Railtrack (?) could do to make this crossing any safer

They could build a bridge. Or an underpass. I understand that other
countries have ongoing programmes to replace their level crossings. When I
lived in Germany three local level crossings were replaced by bridges at
considerable expense.

--
Michael MacClancy

Michael MacClancy wrote:

They could build a bridge. Or an underpass.

But there again, if people are dumb enough to ignore red lights,
physical barriers and audible alarms backed up with known incidences of
death and mutilation to save several /whole seconds/, is a bridge
ultimately going to help any further than the next right of way conflict
where they can sacrifice safety for possibly a little time?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Michael MacClancy wrote:
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:44:54 GMT, soup wrote:


While I feel sorry for the girl concerned and her family it is hard to
see what Railtrack (?) could do to make this crossing any safer


They could build a bridge. Or an underpass. I understand that other
countries have ongoing programmes to replace their level crossings. When I
lived in Germany three local level crossings were replaced by bridges at
considerable expense.

Pedestrians wouldn't use it.

In my (admittedly limited) data sample of one level crossing I used to
cycle over twice a day, there was a pedestrian bridge right beside the
crossing. In two years of daily commute, during which time I was
reasonably frequently stopped at the crossing by trains, I never *ever*
saw anyone walking over it; the pedestrians preferred to wait at the
barrier for the train to pass. (It was an old SR lattice bridge, so no
worries about dark concealed corners where unpleasant characters might
lurk).

R.

Peter Clinch wrote:
Michael MacClancy wrote:

They could build a bridge. Or an underpass.


But there again, if people are dumb enough to ignore red lights,
physical barriers and audible alarms backed up with known incidences of
death and mutilation to save several /whole seconds/, is a bridge
ultimately going to help any further than the next right of way conflict
where they can sacrifice safety for possibly a little time?

I don't think anyone has a complete answer. It's not in human nature to
always be careful, always follow instructions and so on. Teenagers are
notoriously reckless with their own safety and welfare.

Perhaps the monetary and social costs (loss of freedom and personal
responsibility) of eliminating all such risks (if it's even possible -
probaly not) are so high that it makes more sense to say the risks
should be fixed at a level we can live with. Which means there will be
some accidents/incidents; terrible for those involved, but it's
inevitable for as long as there is risk.

I also wonder if the effects of trying to control and manage other
people's risk taking are almost inevitably cancelled out by the results
of making people less wary. To take an example away from the ones
usually done to death on urc, look at how the government tries to
control and regulate savings and investments. People still get fleeced,
sometimes they lose everything. I am far from convinced that the
government's efforts do any good at all. It would be far cheaper and
easier, and in my view equally effective, if the government said,
"Personal finance is a private matter and it's your money. There are
many people who would like to take your money off you. The world of
finance is a dangerous place, be bloody careful, and if it all goes
wrong don't come crying to us. You are on your own and don't forget it."

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

Stupidity it one of the biggest problems we face today. If we take
warning signs away, the problem will eventually solve itself.

The second biggest problem is apathy, but who cares?

--
Hywel

JLB wrote:
I also wonder if the effects of trying to control and manage other
people's risk taking are almost inevitably cancelled out by the results
of making people less wary.

That's an interesting concept.
We could call it "risk compensation"

BugBear (trolling along)