Rubber cement question

We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out
over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the
group I bought a large can a while ago.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg

Works well. Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container
that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it
lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop
in this little container is for use at one event only.

Reason is that I sometimes help other riders and then the tube will dry
out in no time. Or is already questionable during the patch job on the road.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/19/2017 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out
over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the
group I bought a large can a while ago.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg

Works well.

So did my can (Rema brand in my case) when I bought it years ago. For a
while. Then the can dried out, even though tightly screwed shut (with a
channel-lock, as I recall).

Since then I've bought the tiny tubes in cheapo patch kits at the local
department store. True, even the unopened ones /can/ be dry, but
generally they last longer when unopened. I save up punctured inner
tubes until I have 6-8, then open a tube of glue & patch 'em all while
the glue is fresh.

Maybe if you put some sort of grease/sealant on the can threads, it will
last longer. Good luck.

Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container
that could be used to fill some into and carry along?

Good question. I'd suggest crimped metal tubes.

Mark J.

On 2017-06-19 16:31, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/19/2017 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out
over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the
group I bought a large can a while ago.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg

Works well.

So did my can (Rema brand in my case) when I bought it years ago. For a
while. Then the can dried out, even though tightly screwed shut (with a
channel-lock, as I recall).

Since then I've bought the tiny tubes in cheapo patch kits at the local
department store. True, even the unopened ones /can/ be dry, but
generally they last longer when unopened. I save up punctured inner
tubes until I have 6-8, then open a tube of glue & patch 'em all while
the glue is fresh.

Maybe if you put some sort of grease/sealant on the can threads, it will
last longer. Good luck.


What also helps is what we do with paint cans, turning them upside down
for a while and then back upright. We have used paint that we bought
more than a decade ago and it was still good enough.


Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container
that could be used to fill some into and carry along?

Good question. I'd suggest crimped metal tubes.


If they seal enough that could work, provided the forces needed to
uncrimp them in the field are reasonable. Not a problem if a rock is
required, I use rocks a lot as makeshift hammers.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:47:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container
that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it
lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop
in this little container is for use at one event only.

Aluminum pill bottles perhaps?
https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pill+bottles&tbm=isch
I have a similar problem with Nitrostat pill evaporating into
uselessness. I drilled one and inserted a tire stem and valve. It
holds pressure quite nicely. The idea is to pressurize the pill
bottle to something higher than the vapor pressure for nitroglycerin
so that it will not voltatize. I suspect the same can be done for
rubber cement by pressuring with something that is not very reactive,
such as CO2, N2, or perhaps propane. Some kind of anti-sieze or
grease might be needed to keep the threads from being glued in place.
The bottle I have here has only 3 threads and is rather loose, but has
a nice o-ring to seal the cap.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with rubber cement.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:47:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container
that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it
lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop
in this little container is for use at one event only.

Aluminum pill bottles perhaps?
https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pill+bottles&tbm=isch
I have a similar problem with Nitrostat pill evaporating into
uselessness. I drilled one and inserted a tire stem and valve. It
holds pressure quite nicely. The idea is to pressurize the pill
bottle to something higher than the vapor pressure for nitroglycerin
so that it will not voltatize.

That does not work. Not even a little bit. The equilibrium partial
pressure of nitroglycerine (or anything) in the vapor space of the
bottle is, to a very good approximation, independent of the total
pressure of any inert gas. It does depend on temperature and on the
mole fraction of nitroglycerine in any liquid solution it might be a
part of.

What does work is to seal the bottle, so that nitroglycerine cannot
escape, and to minimize the size of the vapor space, so that the total
amount vaporized is small. Pressurizing with nitroglycerine would work,
but there are practical problems.

I suspect the same can be done for
rubber cement by pressuring with something that is not very reactive,
such as CO2, N2, or perhaps propane. Some kind of anti-sieze or
grease might be needed to keep the threads from being glued in place.
The bottle I have here has only 3 threads and is rather loose, but has
a nice o-ring to seal the cap.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with rubber cement.

--

On decanting the solvent escapes

https://m.lowes.com/pd/DAP-Weldwood-...Cement/3006177

When immediately closing cover, the brush passing thru a hole in the grocery bag thread gasket you f ashioned, twist ap on snug over the gasket

Store in cool area.

Weldwood lasts, tubes donot

Mark J. wrote:
:On 6/19/2017 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
: We all know that the stuff in those tiny rubber cement tubes dries out
: over time, sometimes even when unopened. So after advice here in the
: group I bought a large can a while ago.
:
: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1ZPISh9s3L.jpg
:
: Works well.

:So did my can (Rema brand in my case) when I bought it years ago. For a
:while. Then the can dried out, even though tightly screwed shut (with a
:channel-lock, as I recall).

The bottle in my file cabinet at work has lasted at least five years,
probably six. I simply put the lid on when I'm not using it. It's an
american brand, purchased at an auto parts store. Maybe americans
understand bottle sealing better than the germans.

In the case of the little tubes, the problem is not always that the
solvent has evaporated. The contents of tube can vulcanize itself
into a hard mass, even in the presence of solvent. That's
particularly likely where it's hot, and the vulcanizing fluid is kept
somehwerer ike a seat wedge, where it's well heated.

--
sig 78

On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:45:49 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

5AM. Can't sleep (mouse in house). Might as well go online.

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:47:56 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Question: Is there some sort of cheap/free micro container
that could be used to fill some into and carry along? Something where it
lasts a longer time than the tiny tubes but where it's ok that the goop
in this little container is for use at one event only.

Aluminum pill bottles perhaps?
https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pill+bottles&tbm=isch
I have a similar problem with Nitrostat pill evaporating into
uselessness. I drilled one and inserted a tire stem and valve. It
holds pressure quite nicely. The idea is to pressurize the pill
bottle to something higher than the vapor pressure for nitroglycerin
so that it will not voltatize.

That does not work. Not even a little bit. The equilibrium partial
pressure of nitroglycerine (or anything) in the vapor space of the
bottle is, to a very good approximation, independent of the total
pressure of any inert gas. It does depend on temperature and on the
mole fraction of nitroglycerine in any liquid solution it might be a
part of.

Thanks. I was afraid that it might not work, which is why I added the
disclaimer. If you're right, which is likely the case, then you saved
me from a wasted experiment. However, you gave me an idea. Can I
reduce the air space volume by filling it with an inert liquid to
reduce evaporation? For nitrostat pills, I have no idea what might
work. For rubber cement, I would guess(tm) that water might work if
the solvents used (acetone, hexane, heptane or toluene) are immiscible
in water. Acetone fails, but the others might be possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_water-miscible_solvents

What does work is to seal the bottle, so that nitroglycerine cannot
escape, and to minimize the size of the vapor space, so that the total
amount vaporized is small. Pressurizing with nitroglycerine would work,
but there are practical problems.

Some kind of flexible membrane between the pills or rubber cement and
the air space might work. Increasing the air pressure in the air
space between the pills or rubber cement above atmospheric should
minimize the volume, keep everything in place, and compensate for
minor changes in the volume of the contents. A butyl, silicone, or
neoprene rubber bladder would be my first guess. One possible glitch
is that opening the bottle might eject the contents, but that could be
useful for applying the rubber cement (but rather sloppy for
dispensing pills).

I suspect the same can be done for
rubber cement by pressuring with something that is not very reactive,
such as CO2, N2, or perhaps propane. Some kind of anti-sieze or
grease might be needed to keep the threads from being glued in place.
The bottle I have here has only 3 threads and is rather loose, but has
a nice o-ring to seal the cap.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this with rubber cement.

I still think aluminum pill bottles have their possibilities for
storing small quantities of rubber cement. Another might be empty gel
pill capsules such as these:
https://www.capsuline.com/empty-capsule-size-chart/
These are easy enough to load with powders, but rubber cement might be
a challenge. Some kind of syringe affair might work, but could be
rather messy. To prevent evaporation along the seal line, some kind
of lacquer or varnish dip might work. Probably too much work, so
maybe just some glass vials:
https://www.premiumvials.com/clear-vials/



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:12:04 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

In the case of the little tubes, the problem is not always that the
solvent has evaporated. The contents of tube can vulcanize itself
into a hard mass, even in the presence of solvent. That's
particularly likely where it's hot, and the vulcanizing fluid is kept
somehwerer like a seat wedge, where it's well heated.

I keep both automobile and bicycle tire patch kits in my car. It gets
rather warm in the car at times. Both kits include those little tubes
of rubber cement. At best, they last a few months. I tore apart one
that was in my rather hot car for over one year. It was almost
completely empty with only a tiny rubber-like blob at the bottom of
the tube. It had never been opened and was not punctured or leaking.
At first, I thought it might be defective from the factory, but then I
found another tube with the same problem. I've gone no further with
this investigation. If it's heat that's causing the cement to harden,
then storing it in a car or riding around with it on a bicycle, are
not going to work.

Except for it being banned in California for using MEK and toluene as
the solvent, I wonder if this stuff might work better?
https://www.ellsworth.com/products/by-manufacturer/3m/adhesives/solvent-based/3m-scotch-weld-1300-neoprene-rubber-and-gasket-adhesive-yellow-5-oz-tube/
Bicycle tires are mostly butyl rubber.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 5:58:34 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:12:04 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

In the case of the little tubes, the problem is not always that the
solvent has evaporated. The contents of tube can vulcanize itself
into a hard mass, even in the presence of solvent. That's
particularly likely where it's hot, and the vulcanizing fluid is kept
somehwerer like a seat wedge, where it's well heated.

I keep both automobile and bicycle tire patch kits in my car. It gets
rather warm in the car at times. Both kits include those little tubes
of rubber cement. At best, they last a few months. I tore apart one
that was in my rather hot car for over one year. It was almost
completely empty with only a tiny rubber-like blob at the bottom of
the tube. It had never been opened and was not punctured or leaking.
At first, I thought it might be defective from the factory, but then I
found another tube with the same problem. I've gone no further with
this investigation. If it's heat that's causing the cement to harden,
then storing it in a car or riding around with it on a bicycle, are
not going to work.

Except for it being banned in California for using MEK and toluene as
the solvent, I wonder if this stuff might work better?
https://www.ellsworth.com/products/by-manufacturer/3m/adhesives/solvent-based/3m-scotch-weld-1300-neoprene-rubber-and-gasket-adhesive-yellow-5-oz-tube/
Bicycle tires are mostly butyl rubber.

What ever the solvent is, that is the carrier, doesn't "dry up". Eventually it leaks out through the crimped end of the tube. I haven't had a problem with glass bottles though I would imagine in enough heat the solvent could gasify enough to leak out of just about everything. Just how good is the cap seal?

The larger the tube usually the smaller the ratio of solvent and the longer it will last.

I ordered an entire load of patch kits from ProPatch a couple of years ago to sell cheaply to the group I ride with. No one bought one kit at a buck. The patch kits are small. So far they do not appear to dry up meaning that the crimped section of tube is managed in such a manner that it doesn't leak. Once opened the glue appears to dry up as rapidly as any other Rema glue..

Also there is the consideration that glueless patches do exist but I've only used them enough to gain confidence that they indeed do work though you have to be very careful in the tube preparation.