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OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 20th 09, 07:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

On Monday night my son's boy scout troop told everyone to bring their
bicycles to the meeting for a bicycle related activity and safety check
(prior to a 27 mile ride this weekend).

To me, this meant, "ride your bike to the meeting" but apparently my son
and I (and one of his friends that came with us because his parents were
were busy) were the only ones that did this, everyone else had their
parents drive them to the meeting with their bikes (one of the main
concerns being that it would be dark when the meeting was over). We
probably live the furthest away of any of the scouts, at about 1 mile.
Well one kid that lives across the street from the meeting place did
walk his bike over.

I'd say of the 35 or so bikes there, 25 were way too small for the
riders. Maybe five were BMX bikes, so this was intentional for those,
the rest of them were bikes that these scouts must have had since they
were 9 years old and 10-15" shorter in height. Of course when your
parents chauffeur you everywhere, who needs a bicycle to get around town
on your own.

Maybe 50% were department store bikes, Magna (Target) or Huffy. Quite a
few Raleigh's which surprised me since I know of no shops in the area
that sell Raleigh, one KHS, one Jamis, one Scott one Giant, one Miyata
(the scoutmaster), one Columbia, one Schwinn, one Specialized (mine). No
Cannondales, no Treks.

I don't know how these kids plan to ride 27 miles on a BMX bike,
standing up the whole way. Maybe 6 of the 35 bikes had a water bottle
cage, and three of those were mine, my son's, and the scoutmaster's. The
scoutmaster had a pump on his Miyata, one of those foot pumps used to
inflate automobile tires, so I gave him a hard time about that. My
goodness, you can buy a mini pump for less than $10 at Performance,
probably less than that at some places.

The repair part of the meeting was pretty funny. Many of the bikes had
two flat tires, not because of any punctures, but because no one had a
pump at home to pump them up. Almost no chains had any lubricant, and
the dad running the repair clinic ran out of chain lube. Most of the
brakes were out of adjustment, and some could not be fixed because the
wheels were so out of true. One guy had his seat pointed up at about a
30 degree angle, and when I pointed it out to him, he said that he
thought that's how it was supposed to be (reminds of Idiocracy and "ow
my balls!).

I suggested that they should have asked a local bike shop person to come
to the meeting, but since the meetings are all planned by the scouts,
usually at the last minute, and the parents aren't supposed to
interfere, that's never going to happen.

Seems like some shops could do some marketing to groups like boy scouts
by pro-actively offering to present programs before being asked. There's
a big shop about 200' from the church where the troop meets.

I told the dad of the kid I escorted to the meeting, "Alex needs a new
bike, and don't go to Target!" I guess I should have added "or Wal-Mart."

The next night (last night) the troop had their committee meeting at my
house. Even though I'm not on the committee (they don't want first year
boy scout parents on the committee because they think we're too used to
Cub Scouts were the parents run everything rather than the scouts). So
one item of discussion was a concern that some scouts were walking home
from troop meetings by themselves rather than being picked up by an
adult. Jesus H. Christ, some of these kids are 17 years old and the
adults are worried about them walking 1/8 to 1 mile at night.

I could get into "back in my day..." like my dad used to do, but I won't.

Ads
  #2  
Old May 20th 09, 08:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 371
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

SMS wrote:

I told the dad of the kid I escorted to the meeting, "Alex needs a new
bike, and don't go to Target!" I guess I should have added "or Wal-Mart."


I bought my son a Schwinn from Target when he was about 13. Made a
point of getting the largest frame they had, because he was shooting up.
He rode it all over, including earning the Cycling Merit Badge[1],
freequent trips to and from school (3 miles o.w.), and then all around
town his first year away at college. He beat that bike up thoroughly,
and learned to be a semi-decent bike mechanic into the bargain.
Finally bought him a better bike (a Raleigh Venture) last month, for
use in an area where it might or might not get swiped. When that one
dies, he can buy himself as good a bike as he wants.
But measured in miles travelled per dollar paid, I don't think he'll
beat that Schwinn anytime soon. "Beater" bikes have their place.


Bill (Frumious)

__o |
_`\(,_ |Friends don't let friends shop at Wal-Mart.
(_)/ (_) |


[1] For anyone who's curious: in addition to learning a modicum about
safety, routine maintenance, and flat fixing, the requirements for the
Cycling M.B. include two ten mile, two fifteen mile, two twenty-five
mile, and lastly a fifty mile ride. No big deal for most of the
denizens of this n.g., but quite a challenge for most teenagers.
  #3  
Old May 20th 09, 09:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

wrote:

But measured in miles travelled per dollar paid, I don't think he'll
beat that Schwinn anytime soon. "Beater" bikes have their place.


Actually I shouldn't be hard on Target, as they do have some bikes that
aren't totally horrible, i.e. their Schwinn offerings. The super cheap
"Magna" house brand is terrible, but some of the Schwinn's are okay.
Some of the sporting goods stores like Sports Authority, Sports
Basement, and REI (and the former Tri-City in Fremont (now condos), a
store so large that the joke was that you could see it from space),
offer some decent stuff, though the prices aren't much cheaper than a
real bike store.

The problem for the 10-12 year old boys is that most of the 24" wheeled
bikes are too small for them, but there aren't many 26" wheeled "men's"
bikes with small enough frames (12"-14") where the reach to the bars
isn't uncomfortably long. You really need a 12"-14" frame with an
adjustable quill stem where you have the adjustment almost vertical,
whereas the bikes with adjustable stems with a threadless headset have
too long of a reach.

Something like the 13.5" frame Jamis Explorer 2 is good,
"http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/sportcomfort/explorer/09_explorer2_spec.html"
and it has the frame angles that make it not too hard for
mounting/dismounting even on the "men's" frame.

My own son is about to outgrow his 12" frame Jamis Ranger, but when
compared to the stuff some of the kids were riding on Monday, his bike
looked positively huge.
  #4  
Old May 21st 09, 12:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Big Jim
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Posts: 58
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

I think it is just as foolish to spend hundreds on a kids bike as it
is to buy a beater for an older teen or adult!!! Kids grow and bikes
get jacked.



On May 20, 4:40*pm, SMS wrote:
wrote:
* * But measured in miles travelled per dollar paid, I don't think he'll
beat that Schwinn anytime soon. *"Beater" bikes have their place.


Actually I shouldn't be hard on Target, as they do have some bikes that
aren't totally horrible, i.e. their Schwinn offerings. The super cheap
"Magna" house brand is terrible, but some of the Schwinn's are okay.
Some of the sporting goods stores like Sports Authority, Sports
Basement, and REI (and the former Tri-City in Fremont (now condos), a
store so large that the joke was that you could see it from space),
offer some decent stuff, though the prices aren't much cheaper than a
real bike store.

The problem for the 10-12 year old boys is that most of the 24" wheeled
bikes are too small for them, but there aren't many 26" wheeled "men's"
bikes with small enough frames (12"-14") where the reach to the bars
isn't uncomfortably long. You really need a 12"-14" frame with an
adjustable quill stem where you have the adjustment almost vertical,
whereas the bikes with adjustable stems with a threadless headset have
too long of a reach.

Something like the 13.5" frame Jamis Explorer 2 is good,
"http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/sportcomfort/explorer/09_explo..."
and it has the frame angles that make it not too hard for
mounting/dismounting even on the "men's" frame.

My own son is about to outgrow his 12" frame Jamis Ranger, but when
compared to the stuff some of the kids were riding on Monday, his bike
looked positively huge.


  #5  
Old May 21st 09, 02:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Peter Cole[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,572
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

SMS wrote:
On Monday night my son's boy scout troop told everyone to bring their
bicycles to the meeting for a bicycle related activity and safety check
(prior to a 27 mile ride this weekend).

To me, this meant, "ride your bike to the meeting" but apparently my son
and I (and one of his friends that came with us because his parents were
were busy) were the only ones that did this, everyone else had their
parents drive them to the meeting with their bikes (one of the main
concerns being that it would be dark when the meeting was over). We
probably live the furthest away of any of the scouts, at about 1 mile.
Well one kid that lives across the street from the meeting place did
walk his bike over.

I'd say of the 35 or so bikes there, 25 were way too small for the
riders. Maybe five were BMX bikes, so this was intentional for those,
the rest of them were bikes that these scouts must have had since they
were 9 years old and 10-15" shorter in height. Of course when your
parents chauffeur you everywhere, who needs a bicycle to get around town
on your own.

Maybe 50% were department store bikes, Magna (Target) or Huffy. Quite a
few Raleigh's which surprised me since I know of no shops in the area
that sell Raleigh, one KHS, one Jamis, one Scott one Giant, one Miyata
(the scoutmaster), one Columbia, one Schwinn, one Specialized (mine). No
Cannondales, no Treks.

I don't know how these kids plan to ride 27 miles on a BMX bike,
standing up the whole way. Maybe 6 of the 35 bikes had a water bottle
cage, and three of those were mine, my son's, and the scoutmaster's. The
scoutmaster had a pump on his Miyata, one of those foot pumps used to
inflate automobile tires, so I gave him a hard time about that. My
goodness, you can buy a mini pump for less than $10 at Performance,
probably less than that at some places.

The repair part of the meeting was pretty funny. Many of the bikes had
two flat tires, not because of any punctures, but because no one had a
pump at home to pump them up. Almost no chains had any lubricant, and
the dad running the repair clinic ran out of chain lube. Most of the
brakes were out of adjustment, and some could not be fixed because the
wheels were so out of true. One guy had his seat pointed up at about a
30 degree angle, and when I pointed it out to him, he said that he
thought that's how it was supposed to be (reminds of Idiocracy and "ow
my balls!).

I suggested that they should have asked a local bike shop person to come
to the meeting, but since the meetings are all planned by the scouts,
usually at the last minute, and the parents aren't supposed to
interfere, that's never going to happen.

Seems like some shops could do some marketing to groups like boy scouts
by pro-actively offering to present programs before being asked. There's
a big shop about 200' from the church where the troop meets.

I told the dad of the kid I escorted to the meeting, "Alex needs a new
bike, and don't go to Target!" I guess I should have added "or Wal-Mart."

The next night (last night) the troop had their committee meeting at my
house. Even though I'm not on the committee (they don't want first year
boy scout parents on the committee because they think we're too used to
Cub Scouts were the parents run everything rather than the scouts). So
one item of discussion was a concern that some scouts were walking home
from troop meetings by themselves rather than being picked up by an
adult. Jesus H. Christ, some of these kids are 17 years old and the
adults are worried about them walking 1/8 to 1 mile at night.

I could get into "back in my day..." like my dad used to do, but I won't.


I blame the parents. If the parents (dads, to be sexist) don't
understand simple bike operation & maintenance, how can they teach their
kids? "Helicopter" parents, chauffeuring children everywhere is the
rule, these days. Parents complain that it's "too dangerous" for their
kids to bike to school (actually banned at the local elementary school),
even though a lot of the traffic is just parents driving kids to school
(school is at the end of my street, so I see this every day).

My kid's friend's parents have expressed shock and concern that we allow
our kids to travel freely around the city, either on foot, bike or
public transit. They would love to ride bikes places with friends, but
none of their friends have working bikes or the skills to use them --
even modest distances on car-free bike paths or low traffic residential
streets.

As for bikes, I've got a garage full. Just this month I picked up 2
more. I didn't even travel far as both were discarded by neighbors. One
was a perfectly serviceable Schwinn, the other a Fuji. Both bikes could
be restored to as new for under $50, or way better than new for $150.
That makes 5 bikes this year that I've collected near my house -- all
nice bikes, I don't bother with the dept. store ones -- and I'm not even
looking. These days you can get a pretty nice MTB for ~$250 new, with
the knobbies replaced by slicks, you've got a perfect kid bike. When
they were younger, I bought starter bikes from other parents (for like
$50), tweaked them a little & passed them on to other families when we
outgrew them.

Maybe helicopter parenting is a recent phenomenon, but the dearth of
bike-savvy parents isn't. I remember as a kid in the early 60's how
broken bikes pretty much stayed broken as nobody seemed to know how to
fix them. A couple of years ago my son's friend came by with a bike he
had been riding that he had found curbside on trash day. The kid knew
enough to pump the tires & oil the chain, but when his freewheel packed
it up, he was clueless. Turns out it was a screwball Maillard
Helicomatic (Peugeot bike) & he was dismayed when I told him it was
unrepairable -- no problem, I just gave him a new rear wheel from my
small collection of 27" recycles and trued up his front while I was at
it. He was amazed. I don't get particularly concerned when a kid's bike
gets stolen (1), vandalized (1), or crashed badly (1), because I usually
have the parts (or bike) to replace them. It's a cheap and easy way to
give kids lots of independence.
  #6  
Old May 21st 09, 03:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

Peter Cole wrote:

I blame the parents. If the parents (dads, to be sexist) don't
understand simple bike operation & maintenance, how can they teach their
kids?


Sign, one of my son's friend's rode a bike with a broken spoke, and
hence a wheel that was so out of true that the brakes didn't work, for
two years before he got a new bike. I suggested to the kid that he tell
his dad to get the spoke replaced, but nothing happened.

"Helicopter" parents, chauffeuring children everywhere is the
rule, these days. Parents complain that it's "too dangerous" for their
kids to bike to school (actually banned at the local elementary school),
even though a lot of the traffic is just parents driving kids to school
(school is at the end of my street, so I see this every day).


One of the most amusing/distressing things I saw was when I would walk
my son to school and the parent of a kid that lived about 50 meters from
the school would be pulling out his driveway, and joining the line of
cars that extended to within 5 meters of his house, and wait in line to
drop his daughter off at the drop off circle of the school, then drive
back home, taking far longer than just walking. Plus it's people like
him that made it so dangerous around the school, 500 parents driving
their kids to a school that they could walk to in 5 to 15 minutes, not
stopping for kids in crosswalks, blocking intersections, parking in fire
lanes, etc. I had a web site of photos when my kid went to that school,
"http://nordicgroup.us/dtshos/". Okay, maybe I was a helicopter parent
every morning, because I would not let him walk to school by himself
after witnessing too many horrible drivers around the school.

My kid's friend's parents have expressed shock and concern that we allow
our kids to travel freely around the city, either on foot, bike or
public transit. They would love to ride bikes places with friends, but
none of their friends have working bikes or the skills to use them --
even modest distances on car-free bike paths or low traffic residential
streets.


My son's best friend, 12, isn't even allowed to go to the playground
without an adult. That was kind of a shock to me, since I've been
letting my son go by himself to the playground for at least four years,
maybe longer, I can't remember.

Maybe helicopter parenting is a recent phenomenon, but the dearth of
bike-savvy parents isn't. I remember as a kid in the early 60's how
broken bikes pretty much stayed broken as nobody seemed to know how to
fix them.


I marvel that the drug store closest to my house, a Long's soon to be
CVS, has a bicycle parts area complete with Park Tools. Since they've
been stocking this stuff for the ten years we've lived here, someone
must be buying it. I'm worried that when CVS fully completes the
makeover that they'll dispense with that kind of stuff. Kind of nice to
be able to get parts up to 10:00 at night.

A couple of years ago my son's friend came by with a bike he
had been riding that he had found curbside on trash day. The kid knew
enough to pump the tires & oil the chain, but when his freewheel packed
it up, he was clueless.


Well that's fair enough, I don't expect most kids to know how to deal
with replacing a freewhel.

Turns out it was a screwball Maillard
Helicomatic (Peugeot bike) & he was dismayed when I told him it was
unrepairable -- no problem,


"http://www.yellowjersey.org/helico.html"
  #7  
Old May 22nd 09, 12:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

Peter Cole wrote:

I blame the parents. If the parents (dads, to be sexist) don't
understand simple bike operation & maintenance, how can they teach their
kids?


I blame the Japanese vehicle manufacturers. Here's why. Back in the days
when everyone owned American cars (or English or German cars as the case
may be), it was very common to do your own maintenance, and cars needed
a lot of it. You needed 3K oil changes, rather than 7.5K to 10K oil
changes. You had to change spark plugs (and gap them), replace points,
condensers, rotors, distributor caps every 5-10K miles, and alternators,
water pumps, suspension went out a lot more etc. So a lot of dads did at
least some of their own maintenance and the boys picked it up (I know
I'm being sexist here). Plus the tools were all in the garage to use,
with or without permission!

Then the Japanese auto companies began exporting much more reliable
vehicles that needed much less maintenance, and the U.S. and European
companies copied their efforts. Now there's not only a lot less stuff
the home mechanic needs to do, there's a lot less stuff they are even
able to do, so few people do any of their own vehicle maintenance.

I don't remember my dad ever fixing my bike, from around age 10 I did it
all myself.
  #8  
Old May 22nd 09, 03:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Paul M. Hobson[_2_]
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Posts: 370
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

SMS wrote:
I don't remember my dad ever fixing my bike, from around age 10 I did it
all myself.


Ha. My dad showed me how to tighten the chain on my BMX Huffy and how to
lube the chain using WD-40.

--
Paul M. Hobson
..:change the f to ph to reply:.
  #9  
Old May 22nd 09, 04:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

In article ,
SMS writes:

The next night (last night) the troop had their committee meeting at my
house. Even though I'm not on the committee (they don't want first year
boy scout parents on the committee because they think we're too used to
Cub Scouts were the parents run everything rather than the scouts). So
one item of discussion was a concern that some scouts were walking home
from troop meetings by themselves rather than being picked up by an
adult. Jesus H. Christ, some of these kids are 17 years old and the
adults are worried about them walking 1/8 to 1 mile at night.

I could get into "back in my day..." like my dad used to do, but I won't.


It's just not the same world anymore, and perhaps a lot more
dangerous for an urban kid nowadays than it was back in the days
when if the cops saw your house lights on late at night, they'd
stop by to see if everything's all right, and you could leave the
back door open during those hot 'n sultry summer nights.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #10  
Old May 22nd 09, 12:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Peter Cole[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,572
Default OMG, The kids these days and their bicycles...

Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
SMS writes:

The next night (last night) the troop had their committee meeting at my
house. Even though I'm not on the committee (they don't want first year
boy scout parents on the committee because they think we're too used to
Cub Scouts were the parents run everything rather than the scouts). So
one item of discussion was a concern that some scouts were walking home
from troop meetings by themselves rather than being picked up by an
adult. Jesus H. Christ, some of these kids are 17 years old and the
adults are worried about them walking 1/8 to 1 mile at night.

I could get into "back in my day..." like my dad used to do, but I won't.


It's just not the same world anymore, and perhaps a lot more
dangerous for an urban kid nowadays than it was back in the days
when if the cops saw your house lights on late at night, they'd
stop by to see if everything's all right, and you could leave the
back door open during those hot 'n sultry summer nights.

cheers,
Tom


Nah, it just seems more dangerous because of the "if it bleeds, it
leads" news coverage. The actual stats show urban crime way down from
the "golden age". The good old days weren't so much.
 




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