Internally Geared Shimano Hub + Shaft Drive = Carefree Chicago Winter Bike Commute?

I just left my LBS, now $100 poorer, having replaced my rear derailleur,
cable, housing, etc. The bike now shifts great. But I am reminded that my
folder is not intended for winter commuting in Chicago. And I know I am
pushing its frame design limits, with my 210 lbs body weight + 30 lbs cargo.
(I use my bike for primary transportation, as RBT regulars well know.)

I want to avoid 'winter riding conditions' issues with an 'external
derailleur system' and the chain itself. I am fed up, and am ready to throw
$ at the problem.

I am thinking about a 'Crosstown 7' from Dynamic Bicycles
http://www.dynamicbicycle.com/buy/Bikes.php?prodid=66 . But my LBS mechanic
just now told me, I can expect winter maintenance issues, even with a
internally geared hub. For this reason, he says he rides a single-speed bike
in the winter. Is this true? Does winter crud in fact work its way into the
hub, and from there, pick my pocket? Or is his advice dated, and only
applies to old internally geared hubs?

My main concern with the Crosstown 7 is frame strength. Is the aluminum
frame strong enough for my load? Or is this frame really intended for 160 lb
pixies, who don't even know what a backpack is? And what exactly is
'all-weather commuting' anyway? What latitude does that refer to?

Are these wheels strong enough for the load? Do I need to spec stronger
wheels, which I believe DB will do?

DB has told me, they will use Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires. I have zero
tolerance for flats.

DB will use a front disk brake, as an upgrade. Would this be a good idea? I
really want to get away from any variation of rim brakes, because of weather
maintenance issues, like daily cleaning of the rims in the winter.

That is all I can think of, for now.

I don't want to simply substitute my current set of problems, with a more
exotic set of problems.

Your servant - J.

Jay wrote:

My main concern with the Crosstown 7 is frame strength. Is the aluminum
frame strong enough for my load?

The frame is probably fine; I'd be far more concerned about the
durability and strength of the bevel gear driveshaft. When you add
the intrinsic losses of a Nexus 7 hub (which doesn't even have a 1:1
ratio) to the intrinsic losses of two sets of bevel gears, you'll be
going noticeably slower than you do now for the same effort.

Consider instead a bike with a Nexus 8, SRAM S7 or iMotion 9-speed
hub, in combination with a Hebie Chainglider or other full chain
case. That would be at least as easy to live with, a lot more
efficient, and almost certainly more reliable in the long run.

DB will use a front disk brake, as an upgrade. Would this be a good idea? I
really want to get away from any variation of rim brakes, because of weather
maintenance issues, like daily cleaning of the rims in the winter.

Drums are a better match for the low-maintenance city bike role in my
opinion. They are not as strong as discs or good rim brakes, but they
get better with use and they seem to ask nothing of you in return.
Unlike a disc brake's rotors, drums are completely out of harm's way,
as well as out of the weather.

The Shimano front roller brake has an anti-braking "feature"; do not
use it. A SRAM or Sturmey Archer front drum should do nicely,
provided you match it to a lever with the proper ratio and cable
throw.

Chalo

Jay wrote:

I don't want to simply substitute my current set of problems, with a more
exotic set of problems.

IMO that is what you would be doing with a proprietary shaft drive
setup. Forget about derailleurs if you want low maintenace all-weather
performance. A Nexus hub with a stainless steel chain. The Nexus hub
and cable can be irritating to take the wheel off if you need to for a
flat, particularly with cold numb fingers.

Chicago is pretty flat, so I'd go for single speed. No cables so
easier to deal with than Nexus if you need to change the tube, and
much cheaper and less chance of breaking than a Nexus hub.

Joseph

On Feb 1, 1:54*pm, "
wrote:

Chicago is pretty flat, so I'd go for single speed. No cables so
easier to deal with than Nexus if you need to change the tube, and
much cheaper and less chance of breaking than a Nexus hub.

I was thinking this also. Chicago is as flat as a pancake. If ever a
city was made for single-speeds, that is it.

Converting an old bike to a single speed is cheap, too. If you really
want to throw money at the problem, get some sealed bearing hubs. Add
a sealed bottom bracket (~$25) and sealed headset bearings. Then,
winter maintenance amounts to cleaning/lubing/replacing the chain plus
hosing down the bike. This is how my commuter bike is set up (except
it's a fixed gear).

Just my opinion,
Tom

On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, "
wrote:
On Feb 1, 1:54 pm, ...@ gmail.com wrote:

Chicago is pretty flat, so I'd go for single speed. No cables so
easier to deal with than Nexus if you need to change the tube, and
much cheaper and less chance of breaking than a Nexus hub.

I was thinking this also. Chicago is as flat as a pancake. If ever a
city was made for single-speeds, that is it.

Converting an old bike to a single speed is cheap, too. If you really
want to throw money at the problem, get some sealed bearing hubs. Add
a sealed bottom bracket (~$25) and sealed headset bearings. Then,
winter maintenance amounts to cleaning/lubing/replacing the chain plus
hosing down the bike. This is how my commuter bike is set up (except
it's a fixed gear).

Just my opinion,
Tom

No, it's not _just_ your opinion! That's what I would have suggested
too, preferably fixed gear.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed

and: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion

and: http://sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed

Sheldon "Coasting Is Bad" Brown
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| I'll be appearing in the chorus of the Sudbury Savoyards' |
| Production of Gilbert & Sullivan's Yeomen of the Guard |
| Sudbury, Massachusetts, February 22 through March 1 |
| http://sudburysavoyards.org |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com

On Feb 2, 12:02*am, Sheldon Brown wrote:
On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, "



wrote:
On Feb 1, 1:54 pm, ...@ gmail.com wrote:

Chicago is pretty flat, so I'd go for single speed. No cables so
easier to deal with than Nexus if you need to change the tube, and
much cheaper and less chance of breaking than a Nexus hub.

I was thinking this also. *Chicago is as flat as a pancake. *If ever a
city was made for single-speeds, that is it.

Converting an old bike to a single speed is cheap, too. *If you really
want to throw money at the problem, get some sealed bearing hubs. *Add
a sealed bottom bracket (~$25) and sealed headset bearings. *Then,
winter maintenance amounts to cleaning/lubing/replacing the chain plus
hosing down the bike. *This is how my commuter bike is set up (except
it's a fixed gear).

Just my opinion,
Tom

No, it's not _just_ your opinion! *That's what I would have suggested
too, preferably fixed gear.

See:http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed

and:http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion

and:http://sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed

Sheldon "Coasting Is Bad" Brown

I was thinking fixed too, but I figured based on the previous
discussions of gearing, considering the location, that jumping to a
fixed might be too exotic for the OP, thus the single speed
suggestion.

But certainly nothing beats fixed in terms of almost solid-state low
maintenance. I don't even bother hosing mine off, let alone cleaning
the chain.

Joseph

On Feb 1, 3:54 pm, "
wrote:
Jay wrote:
I don't want to simply substitute my current set of problems, with a more
exotic set of problems.

IMO that is what you would be doing with a proprietary shaft drive
setup. Forget about derailleurs if you want low maintenace all-weather
performance. A Nexus hub with a stainless steel chain. The Nexus hub
and cable can be irritating to take the wheel off if you need to for a
flat, particularly with cold numb fingers.


I've done 30K miles in Chicago with a Nexus 7 and nickel plated
chains. It's the perfect combo. Heck, even a Nexus 3 might be enough.
If you run decent tires, flats will be extremely rare, I got one every
10K or so, and for the rear, didn't have to pull the tube. It's a non-
issue. Fixed or single is fine for short jaunts, but I hauled various
amounts of gear, sometimes up to 50# of ****, so various ratios are
nice.

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:02:26 -0800 (PST), Sheldon Brown
wrote:

On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, "
wrote:
On Feb 1, 1:54 pm, ...@ gmail.com wrote:

Chicago is pretty flat, so I'd go for single speed. No cables so
easier to deal with than Nexus if you need to change the tube, and
much cheaper and less chance of breaking than a Nexus hub.

I was thinking this also. Chicago is as flat as a pancake. If ever a
city was made for single-speeds, that is it.

Converting an old bike to a single speed is cheap, too. If you really
want to throw money at the problem, get some sealed bearing hubs. Add
a sealed bottom bracket (~$25) and sealed headset bearings. Then,
winter maintenance amounts to cleaning/lubing/replacing the chain plus
hosing down the bike. This is how my commuter bike is set up (except
it's a fixed gear).

Just my opinion,
Tom

No, it's not _just_ your opinion! That's what I would have suggested
too, preferably fixed gear.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed

and: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion

and: http://sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed


....

My suggestion as well. Chicago is flat; you're commuting not racing;
this is a case of simple being better. Though there's a small learning
curve involved, many -- I among them -- come to enjoy the elemental
experience of riding a fixie. And the minimal maintenance requirements
recommend that choice all the more.

Jay wrote:

I just left my LBS, now $100 poorer, having replaced my rear derailleur,
cable, housing, etc. The bike now shifts great. But I am reminded that my
folder is not intended for winter commuting in Chicago. And I know I am
pushing its frame design limits, with my 210 lbs body weight + 30 lbs cargo.
(I use my bike for primary transportation, as RBT regulars well know.)

I want to avoid 'winter riding conditions' issues with an 'external
derailleur system' and the chain itself. I am fed up, and am ready to throw
$ at the problem.

I am thinking about a 'Crosstown 7' from Dynamic Bicycles
http://www.dynamicbicycle.com/buy/Bikes.php?prodid=66 . But my LBS mechanic
just now told me, I can expect winter maintenance issues, even with a
internally geared hub. For this reason, he says he rides a single-speed bike
in the winter. Is this true? Does winter crud in fact work its way into the
hub, and from there, pick my pocket? Or is his advice dated, and only
applies to old internally geared hubs?

My main concern with the Crosstown 7 is frame strength. Is the aluminum
frame strong enough for my load? Or is this frame really intended for 160 lb
pixies, who don't even know what a backpack is? And what exactly is
'all-weather commuting' anyway? What latitude does that refer to?

Are these wheels strong enough for the load? Do I need to spec stronger
wheels, which I believe DB will do?

DB has told me, they will use Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires. I have zero
tolerance for flats.

DB will use a front disk brake, as an upgrade. Would this be a good idea? I
really want to get away from any variation of rim brakes, because of weather
maintenance issues, like daily cleaning of the rims in the winter.

That is all I can think of, for now.

I don't want to simply substitute my current set of problems, with a more
exotic set of problems.

Your servant - J.

The Dynamic bike is a rip. First of all, how long is the shaft drive
guaranteed for? Ask to see their stock of spare parts. If it breaks
and you can't get it fixed, you can't fit another bottom bracket and a
chainwheel and sprocket because the frame has been specially machined.
Next, that bike is several hundred dollars of equipment away from
being a commuting bike or a town bike or even a leisure bike. It is a
like an automobile manufacturer charging you extra for the lights and
the trunk and the fenders and parts of the engine.

The shaft isn't a solution. The chain isn't a problem. Get hub gears
and a full chain case or a Hebie Chainglider and lube with White
Lightning wax and you'll never again have dirty hands or a rusty, worn
chain.

Nexus hub gearboxes last and last. They are serviced when they break
down, after tens of thousands of miles. You can do it yourself;
Shimano publishes English instructions with step by step photographs;
Sheldon also had the same instructions on his site. But you want the
Nexus 8-speed, not the cheaper 7-speed.

You don't want rim brakes, for sure. The disc brake also has problems:
the disc itself wears and eventually has to be replaced, the pads have
to be replaced frequently (I got only about a thousand klicks out of
mine though it is true I live amid hills), and checked constantly so
that they don't wear down and start scoring the disc, and adjusted
constantly as the pads wear. I have a disc brake on the front of a
Nexus equipped bike
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20Bauhaus.html
and it was great after rim brakes on other bikes but the roller brake
on the back gave more satisfaction, so on my next Nexus bike
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...%20Smover.html
I got roller brakes front and rear. The latest Shimano roller brakes
are as strong as a disc brake and a little more controllable. They are
serviced when they become rough or noisy by pulling out a rubber bung
and squeezing in some Shimano gunk and putting he rubber bung back,
thirty seconds two wheels and clean hands.

I suggest you find someone in the States who sells Gazelle bikes or if
you can't, someone in Holland who will export one to you. Right now is
a good time to buy the overjarige (last year's) model, for instance
this guy,
http://stores.ebay.nl/BIKERS-STORE_F...ftidZ2QQt Zkm
whom I've dealt with before, offers a top of the line Gazelle Saphir
for 725 Euro, a 37 per cent discount. Compare to the prices of similar
bikes from the same maker if you want this year's model (usually
nothing more than a name change and a new paint scheme...)
http://www.gazelle.nl/nl/
Even with carriage, that Gazelle Saphir will look like a bargain
against the Dynamic by the time you've specced the Dynamic up to the
Saphir's level -- and then the Dynamic will still never be nearer than
several stepes below the first league. The fellow at Bikerstore used
to ship to the States, so try him. The Gazelle store in York in the UK
-- click on the British flag on the Gazelle entry page -- also ships
to the USA but you have to pay the full price. Search German Ebay
ebay.de and yatego and Google (Google gets you the Dutch dealers who
this time of the year has some really nice old model deals) for
Gazelle and ask the dealers in turn if they will ship; I bought both
my Nexus-equipped bikes off the internet from dealers several
countries and two seas away by simply calling up or writing and asking
if they would ship to me; in both cases I got free shipping as a form
of discount or additional discount. (A Saphir, or a bike like my
Gazelle Toulouse or my Trek "Smover" are a hell of a long way up the
product tree, like a car dealer stuck with a Rolls-Royce convertible.)

If you want a familiar name (nothing wrong with Gazelle, who are known
as the Rolls-Royce of bicycle makers for a good reason but you won't
necessarily know or care about that) like Trek, here are some
references to suitable Trek bikes, unfortunately for you offered by
Trek Benelux rather than Trek USA. From the Leisure Series, here's the
Trek L600 which comes with the stunning Bontrager wheels I like so
much on my own Trek:
http://www.trekbikes.com/nl/nl/bikes...leisure/l600e/
and the Trek L400, which is cheaper but fitted with the same Rigida
wheels as on my Gazelle bike:
http://www.trekbikes.com/nl/nl/bikes...leisure/l400e/
If you're interested you could ask Trek Benelux for a list of their
dealers, then work your way through them until you find one who will
ship; maybe Trek Benelux wants to supply you direct. If you want to
write to me privately at my fiultra mailbox at Yahoo, I'll give you
the name of the Belgian dealer who supplied my Trek; the arrangements
went through smoothly, but their afterservice was altogether absent
(which is why I don't give them a public plug), so I asked Trek
Benelux who helped me with parts (nothing broken, I just wanted longer
cables and some spares because I would have to do the work on the bike
myself) and a smile and even gifts of lubes and better pedals. While
we're talking about service, I also had occasion to ask Gazelle for
advice and instructions, and they too helped me with a smile.

Finally, though I suggest Gazelle and Trek because I know them, they
are at the top of the pile and they price accordingly. By searching
for Nexus rather than the elite brandnames, you will soon find a whole
raft of European manufacturers who make perfectly competent bikes with
much the same equipment up to a third cheaper than Gazelle and Trek.
Many of them, particularly the Dutch ones, belong to the same
conglomerate as Gazelle, so you very likely get the same frame made in
the same place, and just a slightly lower quality of Shimano parts,
and you don't get the Gazelle custom parts (special toolless
adjustable seat, toolless adjustable stem angle and handlebar
rotation, special lights, even special and in my opinion superb
handlebar grips -- Gazelle is very big on functional ergonomics which
really work); if the frame comes from the same place, do you really
want to pay what could amount to 10 per cent of the total price for
Gazelle's ten (or whatever irrelevant number) year guarantee on the
frame? Another good brand with lower prices is Giant, who is very big
in The Netherlands in city bikes -- search for Giant and Nexus
together.

You ask about tyres. I use Schwalbe's Marathon Plus and haven't had a
flat in over 3000km with them. For comparison, on the bike on which I
use them, over the previous 200km I spent EUR 125 on puncture repairs
and new tubes and labour for fitting same at my LBS (that's roundabout
a buck a mile) before I decided to stop paying off his mortgage and
bought the Marathon Plus off the net instead. On my Trek I have the
possibly cheaper (I've seen them advertised for half the Marathon Plus
price) but equally good Bontrager Satellite Elite Hardcase tyres,
1600km on the same roads with zero flats; I imagine they come on the
Trek bikes above, at least on the more expensive one. However, these
are slick tyres, inflated very hard; they're not going to be much chop
in slush or snow.

I do run on about my enthusiasms.

HTH.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

Chalo Colina wrote:
Jay wrote:
My main concern with the Crosstown 7 is frame strength. Is the aluminum
frame strong enough for my load?

The frame is probably fine; I'd be far more concerned about the
durability and strength of the bevel gear driveshaft. When you add
the intrinsic losses of a Nexus 7 hub (which doesn't even have a 1:1
ratio) to the intrinsic losses of two sets of bevel gears, you'll be
going noticeably slower than you do now for the same effort.

Consider instead a bike with a Nexus 8, SRAM S7 or iMotion 9-speed
hub, in combination with a Hebie Chainglider or other full chain
case. That would be at least as easy to live with, a lot more
efficient, and almost certainly more reliable in the long run.

DB will use a front disk brake, as an upgrade. Would this be a good idea? I
really want to get away from any variation of rim brakes, because of weather
maintenance issues, like daily cleaning of the rims in the winter.

Drums are a better match for the low-maintenance city bike role in my
opinion. They are not as strong as discs or good rim brakes, but they
get better with use and they seem to ask nothing of you in return.
Unlike a disc brake's rotors, drums are completely out of harm's way,
as well as out of the weather.
...
It should be noted that hub brakes become more effective with a
reduction in wheel diameter, which is another reason for staying with a
small wheel bicycle.

Is there a dynamo hub that includes a drum brake?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth