dog repellent

"A Muzi" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:40:51 -0600, Greg may
have said:
On 5 separate incidents this morning I was chased by dogs. One of them
was a pack of 4 dogs. I'm up for sprinting to outrun them once or
twice, but 5 times? Does anybody use dog repellent? If so, what brand
and where do you put it (jersey, clip to shorts, etc)

"Werehatrack" wrote
I used to have that problem in one neighborhood near here, so I
checked with my mailman and asked him what brand of dog repellent
spray (if any) the Post Office supplies. It turned out that USPS
still uses Halt!, the same as they did when my father was delivering
mail in the '60s. And, much as I expected, merely having a can of
that *visible* caused some of the annoying dogs to shear off and run
for cover. (The stuff is not, in my opinion, the best possible
product if you actually need to *use* it, though.)

GaryG wrote:
Halt! has a pretty low concentration of capsicum (the active ingredient
in
pepper spray). I've found the full strength stuff works well on dogs,
and
it's nice to have in case of confrontations with two-legged varmints too
(thankfully, I've not had to use it on a person).

Some self-defense advisors note that pepper spray can
escalate a confrontation without positively incapacitating
an attacker. Generally not a good idea to use it on a human
for that reason.

I don't buy that argument at all, but if you've got some links to relevant
research, plese post them.

Surely if pepper spray would "escalate" without "incapacitating" police
officers would not be carrying it (and using it).

FWIW, I once witnessed pepper spray used by police officers against a large,
belligerent drunk...it was very effective at pacifying him, and they had him
in handcuffs within about 30 seconds of being sprayed.

GG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:41fd1115.0@entanet...
Greg wrote:

On 5 separate incidents this morning I was chased by dogs. One of them
was a pack of 4 dogs. I'm up for sprinting to outrun them once or
twice, but 5 times? Does anybody use dog repellent? If so, what brand
and where do you put it (jersey, clip to shorts, etc)

What about a Dog Dazer? It's an ultrasonic device.

Those are generally thought to be bogus, and worthless.

Here's the best review I've found of dog deterrent strategies (including the
Dazer):

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journ...ealingwithdogs

And, here's a specific review of the Dazer:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journ...gwithdogs#4864

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

"Greg" wrote in message
news
Thanks everybody for all the good ideas. I have a call into animal
control, but I think I'll start carrying a small can of cop-strength
pepper spray in the jersey. I love dogs too, but that pack really
scared me. I also think when out sprinting them, it's only a matter of
time until one gets caught up in the spokes and the rider goes down
hard. I know I have to get over 25 mph to outrun them. Whew.

What is the best strategy when approaching. Haul ass or proceed more
slowly with better control over the pepper spray?

I've used pepper spray while riding on a number of occasions. Generally, it
works best if the dog is approaching from behind, and if the wind is light
or in your face. If it's a windy day, you do need to be aware of wind
direction, because you backspray can be a problem (I got a very small taste
of this on once occasion - my lip was burning for a mile or so, but not
terribly so).

You need to be comfortable and relaxed on the bike, and it helps to practice
this before you need it. Reach into your jersey pocket and pull out the
spray whenever you see a dog that may be a threat. Note: it's best if you
can find pepper spray with some sort of "safety" cap so that you don't
accidentally spray - my favorite is the kind with a "flip top" where you
have to flip up a cap to get to the actual firing mechanism.

If the dog is coming up from behind, try to roughly match the dog's speed
with your bike. Then, be patient until the dog is about 5-10 feet behind
you. At that point, fire a short (1-second) burst aiming for his eyes and
nose. In my experience, this will cause the dog to stop chasing nearly
instantly. If there's more than one dog, aim for the "leader" (I stopped 3
dogs once by taking out just the lead dog).

If they are ahead of you and seem likely to run in front of you, or into you
from the side, it's probably best to stop your bike and use it as a shield
between you and the dog (however, with a pack of dogs this technique becomes
much less effective). Spraying to the front is NOT recommended while
riding!

Hope this helps, and make sure you call your local animal control department
to report the situation.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists


On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:40:51 -0600, Greg
wrote:

On 5 separate incidents this morning I was chased by dogs. One of them
was a pack of 4 dogs. I'm up for sprinting to outrun them once or
twice, but 5 times? Does anybody use dog repellent? If so, what brand
and where do you put it (jersey, clip to shorts, etc)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:50:01 -0800, "GaryG"
may have said:

"A Muzi" wrote in message
...

Some self-defense advisors note that pepper spray can
escalate a confrontation without positively incapacitating
an attacker. Generally not a good idea to use it on a human
for that reason.

I don't buy that argument at all, but if you've got some links to relevant
research, plese post them.

Surely if pepper spray would "escalate" without "incapacitating" police
officers would not be carrying it (and using it).

Police officers get the strong stuff, and they *usually* get training
in how to make it work effectively. As was demonstrated quite
convincingly in footage aired as part of a local TV news special here
a couple of years ago, pepper spray, in the hands of someone who is
both unskilled in its use and scared out of their mind at the same
time, will often not be applied in the manner required in order for it
to be effective. If the spray is as (relatively) understrength as
Halt!, then it has an even greater chance of failing to produce the
desired result.

It should also be noted that NYPD paramedics reportedly have been
trained in how to handle cases of people having their own pepper spray
used *on* them by an assailant who wasn't deflected by the stuff; it
apparently happens often enough to be considered relatively common
there.

FWIW, I once witnessed pepper spray used by police officers against a large,
belligerent drunk...it was very effective at pacifying him, and they had him
in handcuffs within about 30 seconds of being sprayed.

Yes, that's how it generally goes down when the user has the right
tool, the right training, and the right demeanor. Someone who is
nervous and/or scared, poorly trained, and wielding the kind of spray
that's too often sold to the public, is likely to simply make the
attacker fscking furious. It's like anything else; learn to use the
tools or be prepared for them to make things worse instead of better.
(This goes for hammers, too.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:40:22 GMT, "Robert Haston"
may have said:

I have found that simply leaning down and pretending you are picking up a
rock works - better yet if you have a real rock.

It doesn't work with bears, actually hit one with a big rock once and he
didn't flinch - and he was a small bear.

I assume you're familiar with the folklore concerning how to tell, in
poor light, whether you have been treed by a black bear or a brown
bear...

The black bear will climb the tree to get you. The brown bear will
knock the tree over.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Werehatrack" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:50:01 -0800, "GaryG"
may have said:

"A Muzi" wrote in message
...

Some self-defense advisors note that pepper spray can
escalate a confrontation without positively incapacitating
an attacker. Generally not a good idea to use it on a human
for that reason.

I don't buy that argument at all, but if you've got some links to
relevant
research, plese post them.

Surely if pepper spray would "escalate" without "incapacitating" police
officers would not be carrying it (and using it).

Police officers get the strong stuff, and they *usually* get training
in how to make it work effectively. As was demonstrated quite
convincingly in footage aired as part of a local TV news special here
a couple of years ago, pepper spray, in the hands of someone who is
both unskilled in its use and scared out of their mind at the same
time, will often not be applied in the manner required in order for it
to be effective. If the spray is as (relatively) understrength as
Halt!, then it has an even greater chance of failing to produce the
desired result.

It should also be noted that NYPD paramedics reportedly have been
trained in how to handle cases of people having their own pepper spray
used *on* them by an assailant who wasn't deflected by the stuff; it
apparently happens often enough to be considered relatively common
there.

FWIW, I once witnessed pepper spray used by police officers against a
large,
belligerent drunk...it was very effective at pacifying him, and they had
him
in handcuffs within about 30 seconds of being sprayed.

Yes, that's how it generally goes down when the user has the right
tool, the right training, and the right demeanor. Someone who is
nervous and/or scared, poorly trained, and wielding the kind of spray
that's too often sold to the public, is likely to simply make the
attacker fscking furious. It's like anything else; learn to use the
tools or be prepared for them to make things worse instead of better.
(This goes for hammers, too.)

FWIW, I've heard good reviews of these pepper spray products. They claim to
use the same formulations for both cops and civilians.

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepper.htm

I still think that having some form of self-defense at hand is better than
none at all. I've been involved in enough confrontations with motorists and
dogs to know that I won't freak out, and I've never yet pulled out my spray
on a motorist (even when confronted by a ****ed off redneck who stopped his
truck in the middle of the road and got out yelling at me to get off the
f*ing road). I did use pepper spray once to help avoid a possible mugging in
Chicago, but in that case all I did was pull it out of my pocket and hold it
at my side.

I'm a large enough guy, and pretty assertive without being overtly
threatening, that I've been able to talk my way out of most confrontations.
But, having the pepper spray (and some martial arts background) gives me a
bit of backup, in case someone just wants to get physical. Hopefully,
anyway...

GG


--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:40:22 GMT, "Robert Haston"
may have said:


I have found that simply leaning down and pretending you are picking up a
rock works - better yet if you have a real rock.

It doesn't work with bears, actually hit one with a big rock once and he
didn't flinch - and he was a small bear.


I assume you're familiar with the folklore concerning how to tell, in
poor light, whether you have been treed by a black bear or a brown
bear...

The black bear will climb the tree to get you. The brown bear will
knock the tree over.

This is why you should always ride with a slower cyclist.

If Mikey V. were here, he would claim that hominids [1] are a natural
parts of a bears diet.

[1] Especially those that ride mountain bikes.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

"marco007esq" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here is a solution --- find the redneck that has four dogs and no
wherewithal to control them, and stab him in the face with a hot
soldering iron... screaming "NOW WILL YOU ****ING CONTROL YOUR DOGS,
**** FACE???"


Dear Marco, this was my tactic for a long time. I would yell species
specific epitaphs and tell the dog that I would kill it loud enough to rouse
the owner. Eventually I tired of this method because while it felt good the
first few times it took a lot of energy and did not really control the dogs
or the owners.

I really don't know why but the can of bear spray is enough to keep them
away. I have never had to take it out.

Dave

Greg wrote:

Thanks everybody for all the good ideas. I have a call into animal
control, but I think I'll start carrying a small can of cop-strength
pepper spray in the jersey. I love dogs too, but that pack really
scared me. I also think when out sprinting them, it's only a matter of
time until one gets caught up in the spokes and the rider goes down
hard. I know I have to get over 25 mph to outrun them. Whew.

What is the best strategy when approaching. Haul ass or proceed more
slowly with better control over the pepper spray?

You don't want to go over the bars at 25 MPH. So unless you're damn sure you
can make it past without being caught, the best defense is probably to stop.
Sprinting is likely to trigger a chase response anyway. Stopping allows you to
de-escalate the situation. It may take a minute or two for the dog to settle
down, but it almost always does. It's actually very rare that it doesn't,
unless you do something stupid. Most times, a minute or two of aggressive
barking and yelling is enough to roust the dog's owner anyway. Then you can
have a chat about letting their dog run loose. Most people are reasonable.
Those who are indifferent or ignorant can still be talked to though. It's
helpful to know the local laws to make your point. So save the pepper spray for
real emergencies. A cell phone might be a better idea anyway -- to call the law
if you have a real problem with a dog/owner, or to call for help if a dog causes
you to crash.

In conversations with rogue dog owners, I've gotten the sense that the threat of
being cited and fined actually works. At risk of being flamed for stereotyping,
I'll say that loose dogs are most common around low-income dwellings. The last
thing many of these dog owners need is a fine, and/or the law to come poking
around.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
...
Greg wrote:

Thanks everybody for all the good ideas. I have a call into animal
control, but I think I'll start carrying a small can of cop-strength
pepper spray in the jersey. I love dogs too, but that pack really
scared me. I also think when out sprinting them, it's only a matter of
time until one gets caught up in the spokes and the rider goes down
hard. I know I have to get over 25 mph to outrun them. Whew.

What is the best strategy when approaching. Haul ass or proceed more
slowly with better control over the pepper spray?

You don't want to go over the bars at 25 MPH. So unless you're damn sure
you
can make it past without being caught, the best defense is probably to
stop.
Sprinting is likely to trigger a chase response anyway. Stopping allows
you to
de-escalate the situation. It may take a minute or two for the dog to
settle
down, but it almost always does. It's actually very rare that it doesn't,
unless you do something stupid. Most times, a minute or two of aggressive
barking and yelling is enough to roust the dog's owner anyway. Then you
can
have a chat about letting their dog run loose. Most people are
reasonable.
Those who are indifferent or ignorant can still be talked to though. It's
helpful to know the local laws to make your point. So save the pepper
spray for
real emergencies. A cell phone might be a better idea anyway -- to call
the law
if you have a real problem with a dog/owner, or to call for help if a dog
causes
you to crash.

FWIW - stopping to de-escalate the situation can work with single dogs, but
not always. I once had to use my bike as a shield for about 5 minutes, as a
very p*ssed of German Shepard barked and circled me. I wasn't carrying
pepper spray then, or he'd have gotten sprayed. Eventually the owner showed
up and collared him.

Also, with a pack of dogs (especially, pit bulls), stopping is generally a
bad idea. I once got surrounded by a pack of pit bulls, and there was no
way to keep them away. Fortunately, they were friendly and just closed in
to smell and lick my salty legs. But, if they had been intent on biting,
I'd have been in deep sh*t.

GG


In conversations with rogue dog owners, I've gotten the sense that the
threat of
being cited and fined actually works. At risk of being flamed for
stereotyping,
I'll say that loose dogs are most common around low-income dwellings. The
last
thing many of these dog owners need is a fine, and/or the law to come
poking
around.

Matt O.