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A March on Washington... on Bicycle?



 
 
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  #111  
Old November 19th 08, 07:46 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 19, 12:37*pm, Peter Clinch wrote:
KingOfTheApes wrote:
OK, let's say not everybody is "tough." Let's admit some people are
"chicken" or that they are just bothered by traffic noise... so they
need bike paths. Let's assume also that families with kids are not
tough enough for the roads, so they can have an space along the
ckicken.


Look at the NL, again. *Plenty of places with no fietspads, yet
still families and kids out on bikes. *Which takes you back to
respect being more important than bike paths.


Not on major streets. It depends whether you are talking about a
bikeable place or just a "hole"...

(and there's a lot of people living in it, see poll)

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455

Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized? Perhaps never,
unless we use the whip (cameras and other traffic calming measures).


Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.


How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
traffic passing through junctions. *And the more bikes aren't part
of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
junctions will be.

Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.


OK, we don't seem to disagree, perhaps just a matter of degree.
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  #112  
Old November 19th 08, 08:04 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

I hope I don't sound too nationalistic...

After the Big Three crash, what's next?

You know, after Detroit goes under, what do we do with Japanese and
European competition. I'd tax both Japanese and European imports
because they are not going to cash in into American weaknesses.

Then I'd make Detroit build fast trains, EVs, and bikes and let the
foreign invaders eat American pie. Well, let Minis and Smarts in, and
let them eat the rest.

Am I sounding too nationalistic?


  #113  
Old November 19th 08, 09:22 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Dane Buson
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Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Clinch wrote:
KingOfTheApes wrote:

Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.


How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
traffic passing through junctions. And the more bikes aren't part
of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
junctions will be.

Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.


I'd have to agree, and I'll trot out my personal bete noire. I think
one of the best ways to improve safety (in the U.S.) is to make getting
and keeping a license a *little* harder and a *little* more expensive.
As it is with $25 and a pulse, you can pretty much get a license.

That and retesting *everyone* every five years. If you can't be
bothered to pay $50 instead of $25 (for example) and be tested on your
ability to pilot a two ton piece of machinery at high velocity, you
shouldn't be driving.

That might drop the bottom 5% and improve bike *and* pedestrian safety.

--
Dane Buson -
"I brought the atom bomb. I think it's a good time to use it."
-MST3K
  #114  
Old November 19th 08, 09:22 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
Dane Buson
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Posts: 1,340
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

Tom Sherman wrote:
Dane Buson wrote:

Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
to agree I'm thinking. And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
you are.[...]


Who me?


Mmmmm hmmmm.

--
Dane Buson -
Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today --
I think he's from the CIA.
  #115  
Old November 19th 08, 10:29 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 19, 3:22*pm, Dane Buson wrote:
In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Clinch wrote:

KingOfTheApes wrote:


Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.


How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
traffic passing through junctions. *And the more bikes aren't part
of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
junctions will be.


Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.


I'd have to agree, and I'll trot out my personal bete noire. *I think
one of the best ways to improve safety (in the U.S.) is to make getting
and keeping a license a *little* harder and a *little* more expensive.
As it is with $25 and a pulse, you can pretty much get a license.

That and retesting *everyone* every five years. *If you can't be
bothered to pay $50 instead of $25 (for example) and be tested on your
ability to pilot a two ton piece of machinery at high velocity, you
shouldn't be driving.

That might drop the bottom 5% and improve bike *and* pedestrian safety.


The same effect may be achievable by requiring a special license for
SUVs, which after all are "trucks."

Funny, they are trucks to go through the safety loopholes, but not to
require a license.

  #116  
Old November 19th 08, 10:44 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 19, 12:37*pm, Peter Clinch wrote:

See, things are not as simple as "roads are good, bike paths/lanes are
bad"...

"Where I live now in Tigard, OR scored a 69, so it is an effort to
walk as most stores are about 1.5 miles away, but it is a pleasure to
bike as there are good paths and bike lanes. For example there's an
Albertsons 2.08 miles away at the end of a multiuse path that crosses
no streets, ends in their parking lot and with only 0.28miles of
narrow two lane between by apt and the start of the path. In contrast,
where I grew up in New Brunswick, NJ scored in the 80's as more stores
are nearby, but has no bike lanes and lots more traffic.
The walkable site is a good start but needs to account for road/
sidewalk conditions and traffic volume."

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=487455&page=2

  #117  
Old November 20th 08, 03:01 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Posts: 1,468
Default A March on Washington... on Bicycle?

What does the word "banana" tell you?

"BANANA? Yes, it appeals to the monkey within us, yearning for the
simple life in the jungle. Well, perhaps it's a symbol of a better
world to come in frugality and peace."

As I was watching '2001: A Space Odyssey,' it perfectly made sense
that the monkeys were first vegetarian (banana eaters) before
acquiring the "knowledge" of killing and eating meat. So a Banana
Revolution would appeal to that world in the treetops, rather than the
technological advanced world depicted later in the movie.

Then I sat down and wrote the deep thought above. What's our future,
KILLING MONKEYS OR BANANA-PEACE-LOVING MONKEYS?

'Over images of an African desert, a caption reads "The Dawn of Man".
A tribe of herbivore apes is foraging for food. One of them is
attacked and killed by a leopard. They are driven from their water
hole by another tribe. Defeated, they sleep overnight in a small
exposed rock crater. Waking at sunrise, they find that a mysterious
black, rectangular monolith has appeared in front of their shelter.
They approach the monolith shrieking and jumping. Subsequently, one of
the apes (Daniel Richter) realizes how to use a bone as both tool and
a weapon while having mental flashbacks to the monolith, indicating
that the monolith has 'taught' him this knowledge. The apes are now
able to kill animals and eat meat. Next morning they wrest control of
the water hole away from the other tribe, killing their leader in the
process. Exultant in victory, the ape leader throws his bone into the
air which switches via match cut to a shot of an orbital satellite
millions of years in the future, circa 2000. This satellite and three
more immediately following it are generally identified as orbiting
nuclear weapons.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A...sey_%28film%29


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Banana Revolution
(for vegetarian monkeys)

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

  #118  
Old November 20th 08, 02:09 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Peter Clinch
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Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

KingOfTheApes wrote:

Not on major streets. It depends whether you are talking about a
bikeable place or just a "hole"...

(and there's a lot of people living in it, see poll)

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455


For some values of "a lot". That's a statistically meaningless sample.

Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized?


It takes time, but it can (and does) happen. For example, not too
long ago in the UK "one for the road" was perfectly acceptable
amongst the general population. Nowadays drink driving is a pretty
major no-no for the general public.

Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #119  
Old November 20th 08, 04:52 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Default You expect Obama to change America, or just waiting for Jesus?

On Nov 18, 8:53 pm, wrote:
Doug wrote:
I was surprised that my old neighborhood in New Orleans was a
“walker’s paradise” at 100%,


Interesting. I put the address of the house I grew up in--just off
the cemetery end of Canal St and got an 82%


Cemeteries are safer to walk than most places in America. Main risk of
walking in America is crime.

But people who got enough money to live in gated communities can so
pretty freely.
  #120  
Old November 20th 08, 05:09 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 20, 8:09*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
KingOfTheApes wrote:
Not on major streets. It depends whether you are talking about a
bikeable place or just a "hole"...


(and there's a lot of people living in it, see poll)


http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455


For some values of "a lot". *That's a statistically meaningless sample.

Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized?


It takes time, but it can (and does) happen. *For example, not too
long ago in the UK "one for the road" was perfectly acceptable
amongst the general population. *Nowadays drink driving is a pretty
major no-no for the general public.

Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.


OK, OK, but here is NOT EVEN AN ISSUE, nor will I expect it to be.
Before you can even fix the problem, you must accept you have a
jungle, right?

Just browse...

http://www.lulu.com/content/186268

One question, one characteristic that hints at a jungle is GATED
COMMUNITIES, where the Rich and Powerful isolate themselves in
relative safety, and then let the world fall prey to the Law of the
Jungle.

Is the UK like that? How often you find them in Europe for that
matter?

 




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