Rear Phil FSC Freehub - Clunk... Clunk... Clunk!

On Mar 5, 10:06*am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 3/5/2011 11:23 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
* [...]

I was in a little cabal of kids who were into bikes for some reason.
I couldn't imagine kids of today being excited about Campagnolo -- or
excited about seeing a real racing bike up close. Those things were
rare and exotic, and no PTA mom or self-respecting Rotarian would be
seen riding down the road on one, let alone wearing wool shorts. *You
had to be special!

Did the Rotarians back then drive NSU Ro 80's or Mazda Cosmos'?

Chevy Impala stationwagon, although the wheels did go 'round. -- Jay
Beattie.

On Mar 1, 9:22*pm, James wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
Steve Sr. wrote:
Phil Gurus,

I have one of these hubs on my regular road bike. This hub currently
has about 13K miles on it. It has been ridden under fairly benign
conditions and rarely in the rain.

Last fall it developed pawl engagement clunk... clunk... clunk noises.
Phil was nice enough to provide a new freehub body under warranty.
This got rid of the noise for about 1500 miles.
The noise has recently returned so I disassembled the wheel and
cleaned and re-greased the assembly. While apart and clean I could
readily see areas on the ratchet teeth where the pawls had been
slipping i.e failing to engage the ratchet ring.
On a ride today the noise was still there. At this point I am assuming
that the ratchet ring needs to be replaced. Does anyone know if this
can be done by a mechanically inclined individual or an experienced
LBS? I am assuming that it might require special tools?

This is my first experience with Phil hubs and I am really
disappointed concerning their reputation for quality products. Is this
the kind of mileage that I can expect from one of these hubs?
Is this freehub design just finicky? i.e. if the moon, stars, and
special grease viscosity all line up then they work properly. If not
they begin eating themselves up in short order?
I have noticed that even fully greased the pawls seem kind of "jerky"
(not smooth) when pressed by a finger. I wonder if this is the same
thing that is keeping them from fully engaging while in the hub.
Should a special kind of grease be used on these?

Thanks for any insight.

An uncommon situation with that hub. *Not being able to see it, my
thoughts are that your lubricant is too thick. A very thin grease maybe,
but we prefer a gear oil on pawls. You should consult with your local
Phil dealer or call Phil Wood.

I had trouble with pawls not engaging properly using heavy gear oil
(80w-140) in a Mavic hub.

After the pawls slipped a few times the edge had worn off them and I
reshaped them carefully with a file.

Now I use much lighter oil (ATF), and have no problems.

JS.

I use Mobil One..0W-15....doesn't get thick in the cold either, cheap
as well.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

James wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

Steve Sr. wrote:

I have one of these hubs on my regular road bike. This hub currently
has about 13K miles on it. It has been ridden under fairly benign
conditions and rarely in the rain.

Last fall it developed pawl engagement clunk... clunk... clunk noises.
Phil was nice enough to provide a new freehub body under warranty.
This got rid of the noise for about 1500 miles.
The noise has recently returned so I disassembled the wheel and
cleaned and re-greased the assembly. While apart and clean I could
readily see areas on the ratchet teeth where the pawls had been
slipping i.e failing to engage the ratchet ring.
[...]
I have noticed that even fully greased the pawls seem kind of "jerky"
(not smooth) when pressed by a finger. I wonder if this is the same
thing that is keeping them from fully engaging while in the hub.
Should a special kind of grease be used on these?

An uncommon situation with that hub. *Not being able to see it, my
thoughts are that your lubricant is too thick. A very thin grease maybe,
but we prefer a gear oil on pawls. You should consult with your local
Phil dealer or call Phil Wood.

I had trouble with pawls not engaging properly using heavy gear oil
(80w-140) in a Mavic hub.

After the pawls slipped a few times the edge had worn off them and I
reshaped them carefully with a file.

Now I use much lighter oil (ATF), and have no problems.

I use Mobil One..0W-15....doesn't get thick in the cold either, cheap
as well.

Is it just me, or does it sometimes seem that some of these things
become fussier and more of a maintenance hassle the more exorbitantly
you pay for them?

Chris King and Phil Wood, I'm looking at you.

With the cheap and effective stuff, I've never found myself worrying
about what lube is on the freewheel pawls or whether the stem has been
faced on a lathe.

Chalo

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 21:52:09 -0500, Steve Sr.
wrote:

Phil Gurus,

I have one of these hubs on my regular road bike. This hub currently
has about 13K miles on it. It has been ridden under fairly benign
conditions and rarely in the rain.

Last fall it developed pawl engagement clunk... clunk... clunk noises.
Phil was nice enough to provide a new freehub body under warranty.
This got rid of the noise for about 1500 miles.

The noise has recently returned so I disassembled the wheel and
cleaned and re-greased the assembly. While apart and clean I could
readily see areas on the ratchet teeth where the pawls had been
slipping i.e failing to engage the ratchet ring.

On a ride today the noise was still there. At this point I am assuming
that the ratchet ring needs to be replaced. Does anyone know if this
can be done by a mechanically inclined individual or an experienced
LBS? I am assuming that it might require special tools?

This is my first experience with Phil hubs and I am really
disappointed concerning their reputation for quality products. Is this
the kind of mileage that I can expect from one of these hubs?

Is this freehub design just finicky? i.e. if the moon, stars, and
special grease viscosity all line up then they work properly. If not
they begin eating themselves up in short order?

I have noticed that even fully greased the pawls seem kind of "jerky"
(not smooth) when pressed by a finger. I wonder if this is the same
thing that is keeping them from fully engaging while in the hub.
Should a special kind of grease be used on these?

Thanks for any insight.

Steve

3/15/11 UPDATE

I spoke to Mark, the service manager, at Phil Wood & Co. today. He
related that the freehub and ratchet ring were not manufactured by
Phil. I guess that is not a big surprise since most Phil products are
CNC lathe intensive. He said that they had gotten a run of ratchet
rings that were not properly hardened leading to premature wear

The wheel is on its way tomorrow to sunny California.

Steve

On Mar 15, 7:26*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 21:52:09 -0500, Steve Sr.
wrote:



Phil Gurus,

I have one of these hubs on my regular road bike. This hub currently
has about 13K miles on it. It has been ridden under fairly benign
conditions and rarely in the rain.

Last fall it developed pawl engagement clunk... clunk... clunk noises.
Phil was nice enough to provide a new freehub body under warranty.
This got rid of the noise for about 1500 miles.

The noise has recently returned so I disassembled the wheel and
cleaned and re-greased the assembly. While apart and clean I could
readily see areas on the ratchet teeth where the pawls had been
slipping i.e failing to engage the ratchet ring.

On a ride today the noise was still there. At this point I am assuming
that the ratchet ring needs to be replaced. Does anyone know if this
can be done by a mechanically inclined individual or an experienced
LBS? I am assuming that it might require special tools?

This is my first experience with Phil hubs and I am really
disappointed concerning their reputation for quality products. Is this
the kind of mileage that I can expect from one of these hubs?

Is this freehub design just finicky? i.e. if the moon, stars, and
special grease viscosity all line up then they work properly. If not
they begin eating themselves up in short order?

I have noticed that even fully greased the pawls seem kind of "jerky"
(not smooth) when pressed by a finger. I wonder if this is the same
thing that is keeping them from fully engaging while in the hub.
Should a special kind of grease be used on these?

Thanks for any insight.

Steve

3/15/11 UPDATE

I spoke to Mark, the service manager, *at Phil Wood & Co. today. He
related that the freehub and ratchet ring were not manufactured by
Phil. *I guess that is not a big surprise since most Phil products are
CNC lathe intensive. He said that they had gotten a run of ratchet
rings that were not properly hardened leading to premature wear

The wheel is on its way tomorrow to sunny California.

Steve

Funny, that was my thought. A heat treatment and/ or a material
problem.
Whether produced in house or out sourced material (steel or aluminum
or whatever) has to be checked for hardness. Some parts must have
slipped through.
I would think they have a Rockwell hardness tester. However there are
hardness
testers that test the material closser to the surface.
In my job I worked w/ steel fabrication, one of my more common
statements was
something to the effect: “Everyone makes mistakes, what really counts
is how
they correct the error, & whether they try to correct it rather that
hide it or try
to pass it off as correct.”
I wouldn't rush to judgment that Phil is no longer a high quality co,
JD