In praise of Sapim spokes

On Feb 1, 4:53*pm, Chalo wrote:
Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.)
or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they
always have the length you want.

In Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim
spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with"
which implies there is something better to aspire to.

Trivia: Sapim in Belgium makes, originally for the builders of my fave
bike, Utopia, but now sold to everyone, a special spoke for the
Rohloff hub gearbox. The difference is in the angle of the head.

Can you improve Sapim spokes? Sure. The butting is abrupt and plain
ugly. Just about every other spoke I see is butted more elegantly. I
suppose that the longer the transition, the more weight is added. But,
since weight at those fractions of a gram are irrelevant on my bike, I
wouldn't mind a more elegant butt.

I have some really elegant wheels, strong as all getout on even 28
spokes, said to have been built for my tiny-run Benelux-only Trek by
Keith Bontrager himself (yeah, I know, likely!) but if forced to
choose, I'd probably go with the fat Sapim-spoked wheel as likely to
last longer.

André Jute
No, ladies, I'm not talking about your seat

Andre Jute wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.)
or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they
always have the length you want.

In *Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim
spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with"
which implies there is something better to aspire to.

I like Sapims. In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular
kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory
equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi.

Sapims are a little softer than DTs (not that it seems to matter). I
even prefer the look of their less-shiny finish and visible butting.

Chalo

On Feb 1, 12:22*pm, Chalo wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.)
or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they
always have the length you want.

In *Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim
spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with"
which implies there is something better to aspire to.

I like Sapims. *In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular
kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory
equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi.

Sapims are a little softer than DTs (not that it seems to matter). *I
even prefer the look of their less-shiny finish and visible butting.

Chalo

I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. The ones that Dans Comp sends with
its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Not small and elegant
nipples like DT. Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from
Starbike in Germany.

russellseaton wrote:

I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. *The ones that Dans Comp sends with
its Sapim spokes are very long and large. *Not small and elegant
nipples like DT. *Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from
Starbike in Germany.

I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get
with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a
spherical surface on the heads. They're better than DT nipples for
angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter
rims).

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=nipples
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/product10.htm

I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples,
and I'm more or less indifferent either way. DT standard nipples are
sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more
resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Short nipples
offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced
wheel. Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too
short.

So you know, DT offers long nipples too.

http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...d-Nipples.html

Chalo

On Feb 1, 7:53Â*pm, Chalo wrote:
russellseaton wrote:

I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. Â*The ones that Dans Comp sends with
its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Â*Not small and elegant
nipples like DT. Â*Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from
Starbike in Germany.

I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get
with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a
spherical surface on the heads. Â*They're better than DT nipples for
angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter
rims).

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro.../product10.htm

I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples,
and I'm more or less indifferent either way. Â*DT standard nipples are
sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more
resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Â*Short nipples
offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced
wheel. Â*Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too
short.

So you know, DT offers long nipples too.

http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...T-Swiss-Extra-...

Chalo

Still no 10mm long nipples, why?

Per Chalo:
but longer nipples often are more
resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough

.... or the operator is Magilla The Gorilla.

Don't ask how I know that....
--
PeteCresswell

On 2/1/2011 11:47 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Feb 1, 4:53 pm, wrote:
Danscomp.com. That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.)
or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. They cut spokes to order, so they
always have the length you want.
In Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim
spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with"
which implies there is something better to aspire to.

Sapim spokes are a favorite of "jim beam" also.

I prefer Wheelsmith, since I used to work across the street from the
factory in Milwaukee.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Chalo wrote:
russellseaton wrote:

I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. The ones that Dans Comp sends with
its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Not small and elegant
nipples like DT. Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from
Starbike in Germany.

I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get
with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a
spherical surface on the heads. They're better than DT nipples for
angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter
rims).

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=nipples
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/product10.htm

I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples,
and I'm more or less indifferent either way. DT standard nipples are
sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more
resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Short nipples
offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced
wheel. Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too
short.

So you know, DT offers long nipples too.

http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...d-Nipples.html

Chalo

I'm pleased to see that someone who knows what he is talking about (Chalo) has
no objections to using long 16mm nipples where spokes are a little short. It has
worked for me, but when I've done it I was afraid it was kludge city. In one
case not so long ago I had a very nice old Rigida rim and a box of spokes on
hand that were just right for the rear DS but three or four millimetres too
short for the NDS. So, 12mm nipples on DS and 16mm on NDS produced a rear wheel
that has stayed true and seems to be strong enough for the purpose. Maybe I
wouldn't do it for a paying customer.

PH

On Feb 2, 6:22*am, Chalo wrote:
thirty-six wrote:

Chalo wrote:

russellseaton wrote:

I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. *The ones that Dans Comp sends with
its Sapim spokes are very long and large. *Not small and elegant
nipples like DT. *

I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get
with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a
spherical surface on the heads. *

Still no 10mm long nipples, why?

My guess? *Spoke threads are 10mm long. *With a 10mm nipple. either
the thread pokes out the other side or the threads show above the
nipple. *It's not a critical problem, but it's untidy.

Rims with more than a minimum thickness at the spoke hole drilling
might obstruct full tool access to the nipple flats if the nipples
were only 10mm long.

Chalo

I look at my steel rimmed, steel flanged wheel I keep as a reference
and it has 10mm nipples without threads showing or protruding. So it
obviously can be done. I look at my alloy rimmed wheels and they all
could manage with shorter nipples by two or three millimetres.

Hold on there chappie, where are you measuring the nipple length?

On Feb 2, 7:29Â*am, "Peter Howard" wrote:
Chalo wrote:
russellseaton wrote:

I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. The ones that Dans Comp sends with
its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Not small and elegant
nipples like DT. Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from
Starbike in Germany.

I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get
with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a
spherical surface on the heads. Â*They're better than DT nipples for
angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter
rims).

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products⊂=nipples
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/product10.htm

I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples,
and I'm more or less indifferent either way. Â*DT standard nipples are
sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more
resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Â*Short nipples
offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced
wheel. Â*Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too
short.

So you know, DT offers long nipples too.

http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...T-Swiss-Extra-...

Chalo

I'm pleased to see that someone who knows what he is talking about (Chalo) has
no objections to using long 16mm nipples where spokes are a little short. It has
worked for me, but when I've done it I was afraid it was kludge city. In one
case not so long ago I had a very nice old Rigida rim and a box of spokes on
hand that were just right for the rear DS but three or four millimetres too
short for the NDS. So, 12mm nipples on DS and 16mm on NDS produced a rear wheel
that has stayed true and seems to be strong enough for the purpose. Maybe I
wouldn't do it for a paying customer.

PH

With 14swg or 15swg? 14swg makes the brass nipple wall generally too
thin to put under tension. The underside radius of the nipple head
will determine whether this setup will last. Wont make any difference
if you get your hands on steel nipples though.