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#52
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 12:52:02 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 11:16:40 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:36:42 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Oh, you're not an American obviously. If you were from the USA you would know that Interstates are only for motor vehicles. Bicycles are not allowed on Interstates. Well, I've got a U.S. passport, or aren't USians considered "Americans" these days? And Yes, I do know about "Interstate" highways and we have generally the same thing here, 6 or 8 lane highways with limited, in the sense that there aren't many, access but here they can be used by anyone. Then we have "toll Roads" which are normally restricted to 4 or more wheel vehicles. I doubt if you have a USA passport or are an American citizen. Or have n.ot spent much if any time in the USA. YOU wrote "Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes." And I wrote that Americans, citizens of the USA, know that the USA has Interstates that are only for motor vehicles. Exactly what you suggested in your written comments. No one from the USA would suggest building motor vehicle only lanes because every American already knows they exist. Quite obviously you don't know what you are talking about since, as innumerable others have posted, that in many states bicycles ARE allowed on the Interstate. About as stupid and ignorant a comment as suggesting "Lets build the Eiffel Tower." Obviously, the Eiffel Tower was already built. Just like motor vehicle only Interstates have already been built in the USA. So why suggest something that is already in operation? Are you going to suggest traffic lights and stop signs next? -- cheers, John B. |
#53
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 16:15:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2019 2:52 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 11:16:40 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:36:42 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Oh, you're not an American obviously. If you were from the USA you would know that Interstates are only for motor vehicles. Bicycles are not allowed on Interstates. Well, I've got a U.S. passport, or aren't USians considered "Americans" these days? And Yes, I do know about "Interstate" highways and we have generally the same thing here, 6 or 8 lane highways with limited, in the sense that there aren't many, access but here they can be used by anyone. Then we have "toll Roads" which are normally restricted to 4 or more wheel vehicles. I doubt if you have a USA passport or are an American citizen. Or have not spent much if any time in the USA. YOU wrote "Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes." And I wrote that Americans, citizens of the USA, know that the USA has Interstates that are only for motor vehicles. Exactly what you suggested in your written comments. No one from the USA would suggest building motor vehicle only lanes because every American already knows they exist. About as stupid and ignorant a comment as suggesting "Lets build the Eiffel Tower." Obviously, the Eiffel Tower was already built. Just like motor vehicle only Interstates have already been built in the USA. So why suggest something that is already in operation? Are you going to suggest traffic lights and stop signs next? Mr Slocumb, retired USAF, probably intended that as humor. Cynicism, cynicism. It is difficult to be humorous about the small minority of the population who ride bicycles for pleasure and almost certainly own an automobile in addition to their bicycle, demanding special treatment at tax payer's expense.. Who resist any and all suggestions that they should provide proof of riding ability and knowledge of traffic before riding on public roads, that froth at the mouth at the thought that, like other users of public roads, they should "register" their vehicles or have their vehicles inspected to see that the vehicles are safe to use on public highways and that knowingly disobey traffic laws, That generally act as though they are 6 years old trundling their little bicycle, with the training wheels, up and down the family driveway, but demand the right to use public roads. -- cheers, John B. |
#54
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 17:31:20 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: AMuzi writes: On 4/11/2019 2:52 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 11:16:40 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:36:42 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Oh, you're not an American obviously. If you were from the USA you would know that Interstates are only for motor vehicles. Bicycles are not allowed on Interstates. Well, I've got a U.S. passport, or aren't USians considered "Americans" these days? And Yes, I do know about "Interstate" highways and we have generally the same thing here, 6 or 8 lane highways with limited, in the sense that there aren't many, access but here they can be used by anyone. Then we have "toll Roads" which are normally restricted to 4 or more wheel vehicles. I doubt if you have a USA passport or are an American citizen. Or have not spent much if any time in the USA. YOU wrote "Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes." And I wrote that Americans, citizens of the USA, know that the USA has Interstates that are only for motor vehicles. Exactly what you suggested in your written comments. No one from the USA would suggest building motor vehicle only lanes because every American already knows they exist. About as stupid and ignorant a comment as suggesting "Lets build the Eiffel Tower." Obviously, the Eiffel Tower was already built. Just like motor vehicle only Interstates have already been built in the USA. So why suggest something that is already in operation? Are you going to suggest traffic lights and stop signs next? Mr Slocumb, retired USAF, probably intended that as humor. He's also considerably older than interstates. Given that the Interstate system was conceived in 1956, than yes, I am older than the Interstate. -- cheers, John B. |
#55
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:33:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 4/10/2019 10:33 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 21:25:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/10/2019 8:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 7:48:01 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 11:39:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For six or seven years, the loudest and best financed bike lobbying organizations have been saying we need "protected" bike lanes everywhere. They say it's obviously inadequate to have just a paint stripe separating bikes from cars; we need at _least_ posts, and preferably a line of parked cars. You know, so the bicyclists are totally hidden from motorists until the motorist crosses the bike lane to access a street or driveway. Segregation skeptics have been saying for just as long that the "protection" vanishes precisely where the conflicts are worse. And the design adds new surprises to traffic interactions. Surprises in traffic are NOT good. And there have been crashes, just as predicted. A mile of "protected" bike lane put in Columbus, Ohio a few years ago went from 1.5 car-bike crashes per year to 13 crashes (IIRC) in the year it was installed. And here's the latest one: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2019/04/0...e-mixing-zone/ The solution? "Protected" intersections everywhere! https://vimeo.com/86721046 I haven't seen any cost estimates for this new cycling nirvana. That would be interesting. - Frank Krygowski Bike lanes have sufficient "protection" by lines on the street. In many places you have broken glass in the lane and you have to pull out into the full lane. Yesterday there were heavy gusting winds and on the downhills I had to use the entire lane to be able to retain full control. The problem with far too many painted strip bike lanes is that they put the bicyclist smack dab in the door zone of parked cars. I've seen bike lanes that go partway onto the on ramp of a 100 kph 60 mph highway where bicycles are NOT permitted. The problem is that any motorist using such an on ramp does NOT expect to see a bicyclist there. I use the through traffic lane in those areas and ignore the painted bicycle lane entirely. That's also not to mention painted bicycle lanes that end suddenly especially those that do it on a downhill. Cheers Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Or just let the bicycles share the lane with the motor vehicles? It's legal here. It's what I do. It works. Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't have cars cut across my path, despite the lack of magic DRLs. Well, I had supposed that building bike lanes was actually beneficial to the cyclist. Otherwise why would your duly elected leaders build them? Rather like the great Wall of America that your leader is intent on building will make the U.S. safe from those poor misbegotten people in South America. Strangely we don't have those things here and I don't find it difficult to ride here :-) In fact, as I have written, the only time I have felt in real danger was when I ran a stop sign and someone was coming the other way. It was a three way cross and I didn't see anyone so just kept going.... I hadn't noticed a pickup which came over the brow of a little rise. I went off the road (very quickly) and crashed in a bed of nettles :-) Don't be obtuse. Nearly everyone here likes immigrants, who are not the same as illegal entries. Even loopy-left Trudeau understand that problem: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47874012 An interesting statement as I read at www.christianpost.com that: Average Americans believe that immigrants have had more of a negative than beneficial impact on the crime rate, the economy, social and moral values, and job opportunities, according to the recent Gallup poll. The survey, conducted June 4-24 and released Friday, showed that 58 percent of Americans believe the crime situation is worst because of immigrants, while 46 percent say this people group has negatively impacted the economy in general. -- cheers, John B. Christianpost.com? Give me a ****ing break. -- duane |
#56
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 10:16:45 AM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
" writes: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 6:48:01 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 11:39:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For six or seven years, the loudest and best financed bike lobbying organizations have been saying we need "protected" bike lanes everywhere. They say it's obviously inadequate to have just a paint stripe separating bikes from cars; we need at _least_ posts, and preferably a line of parked cars. You know, so the bicyclists are totally hidden from motorists until the motorist crosses the bike lane to access a street or driveway. Segregation skeptics have been saying for just as long that the "protection" vanishes precisely where the conflicts are worse. And the design adds new surprises to traffic interactions. Surprises in traffic are NOT good. And there have been crashes, just as predicted. A mile of "protected" bike lane put in Columbus, Ohio a few years ago went from 1.5 car-bike crashes per year to 13 crashes (IIRC) in the year it was installed. And here's the latest one: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2019/04/0...e-mixing-zone/ The solution? "Protected" intersections everywhere! https://vimeo.com/86721046 I haven't seen any cost estimates for this new cycling nirvana. That would be interesting. - Frank Krygowski Bike lanes have sufficient "protection" by lines on the street. In many places you have broken glass in the lane and you have to pull out into the full lane. Yesterday there were heavy gusting winds and on the downhills I had to use the entire lane to be able to retain full control. The problem with far too many painted strip bike lanes is that they put the bicyclist smack dab in the door zone of parked cars. I've seen bike lanes that go partway onto the on ramp of a 100 kph 60 mph highway where bicycles are NOT permitted. The problem is that any motorist using such an on ramp does NOT expect to see a bicyclist there. I use the through traffic lane in those areas and ignore the painted bicycle lane entirely. That's also not to mention painted bicycle lanes that end suddenly especially those that do it on a downhill. Cheers Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Oh, you're not an American obviously. If you were from the USA you would know that Interstates are only for motor vehicles. Bicycles are not allowed on Interstates. That's actually up to the individual states. Bicycles are allowed on quite a few western interstates, and, according to Wikipedia, all of them in Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, and Wyoming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-...ss_on_freeways You have to have a death wish to ride a bike on a freeway. Andy |
#57
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 22:55:15 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote: John B. wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:33:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 4/10/2019 10:33 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 21:25:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/10/2019 8:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 7:48:01 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 11:39:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For six or seven years, the loudest and best financed bike lobbying organizations have been saying we need "protected" bike lanes everywhere. They say it's obviously inadequate to have just a paint stripe separating bikes from cars; we need at _least_ posts, and preferably a line of parked cars. You know, so the bicyclists are totally hidden from motorists until the motorist crosses the bike lane to access a street or driveway. Segregation skeptics have been saying for just as long that the "protection" vanishes precisely where the conflicts are worse. And the design adds new surprises to traffic interactions. Surprises in traffic are NOT good. And there have been crashes, just as predicted. A mile of "protected" bike lane put in Columbus, Ohio a few years ago went from 1.5 car-bike crashes per year to 13 crashes (IIRC) in the year it was installed. And here's the latest one: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2019/04/0...e-mixing-zone/ The solution? "Protected" intersections everywhere! https://vimeo.com/86721046 I haven't seen any cost estimates for this new cycling nirvana. That would be interesting. - Frank Krygowski Bike lanes have sufficient "protection" by lines on the street. In many places you have broken glass in the lane and you have to pull out into the full lane. Yesterday there were heavy gusting winds and on the downhills I had to use the entire lane to be able to retain full control. The problem with far too many painted strip bike lanes is that they put the bicyclist smack dab in the door zone of parked cars. I've seen bike lanes that go partway onto the on ramp of a 100 kph 60 mph highway where bicycles are NOT permitted. The problem is that any motorist using such an on ramp does NOT expect to see a bicyclist there. I use the through traffic lane in those areas and ignore the painted bicycle lane entirely. That's also not to mention painted bicycle lanes that end suddenly especially those that do it on a downhill. Cheers Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Or just let the bicycles share the lane with the motor vehicles? It's legal here. It's what I do. It works. Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't have cars cut across my path, despite the lack of magic DRLs. Well, I had supposed that building bike lanes was actually beneficial to the cyclist. Otherwise why would your duly elected leaders build them? Rather like the great Wall of America that your leader is intent on building will make the U.S. safe from those poor misbegotten people in South America. Strangely we don't have those things here and I don't find it difficult to ride here :-) In fact, as I have written, the only time I have felt in real danger was when I ran a stop sign and someone was coming the other way. It was a three way cross and I didn't see anyone so just kept going.... I hadn't noticed a pickup which came over the brow of a little rise. I went off the road (very quickly) and crashed in a bed of nettles :-) Don't be obtuse. Nearly everyone here likes immigrants, who are not the same as illegal entries. Even loopy-left Trudeau understand that problem: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47874012 An interesting statement as I read at www.christianpost.com that: Average Americans believe that immigrants have had more of a negative than beneficial impact on the crime rate, the economy, social and moral values, and job opportunities, according to the recent Gallup poll. The survey, conducted June 4-24 and released Friday, showed that 58 percent of Americans believe the crime situation is worst because of immigrants, while 46 percent say this people group has negatively impacted the economy in general. -- cheers, John B. Christianpost.com? Give me a ****ing break. Why, can you deny that the Christians are some of the most impartial and unprejudiced folks in the history of mankind? -- cheers, John B. |
#58
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On 4/11/2019 7:00 PM, AK wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 10:16:45 AM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote: " writes: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 6:48:01 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 11:39:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For six or seven years, the loudest and best financed bike lobbying organizations have been saying we need "protected" bike lanes everywhere. They say it's obviously inadequate to have just a paint stripe separating bikes from cars; we need at _least_ posts, and preferably a line of parked cars. You know, so the bicyclists are totally hidden from motorists until the motorist crosses the bike lane to access a street or driveway. Segregation skeptics have been saying for just as long that the "protection" vanishes precisely where the conflicts are worse. And the design adds new surprises to traffic interactions. Surprises in traffic are NOT good. And there have been crashes, just as predicted. A mile of "protected" bike lane put in Columbus, Ohio a few years ago went from 1.5 car-bike crashes per year to 13 crashes (IIRC) in the year it was installed. And here's the latest one: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2019/04/0...e-mixing-zone/ The solution? "Protected" intersections everywhere! https://vimeo.com/86721046 I haven't seen any cost estimates for this new cycling nirvana. That would be interesting. - Frank Krygowski Bike lanes have sufficient "protection" by lines on the street. In many places you have broken glass in the lane and you have to pull out into the full lane. Yesterday there were heavy gusting winds and on the downhills I had to use the entire lane to be able to retain full control. The problem with far too many painted strip bike lanes is that they put the bicyclist smack dab in the door zone of parked cars. I've seen bike lanes that go partway onto the on ramp of a 100 kph 60 mph highway where bicycles are NOT permitted. The problem is that any motorist using such an on ramp does NOT expect to see a bicyclist there. I use the through traffic lane in those areas and ignore the painted bicycle lane entirely. That's also not to mention painted bicycle lanes that end suddenly especially those that do it on a downhill. Cheers Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Oh, you're not an American obviously. If you were from the USA you would know that Interstates are only for motor vehicles. Bicycles are not allowed on Interstates. That's actually up to the individual states. Bicycles are allowed on quite a few western interstates, and, according to Wikipedia, all of them in Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, and Wyoming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-...ss_on_freeways You have to have a death wish to ride a bike on a freeway. Don't you mean "Danger! Danger!" ? In my experience, it was noisy but very safe, at least out in the western U.S. Traffic was usually pretty light. Almost everyone changed to the inner lane to pass us. My ladies especially liked that the tractor trailer rigs were all pulling tailwinds behind them. We wished more of them did not change lanes, so the brief draft would be stronger. Oh, and lots and lots of them tooted their horns in greeting as we rode along. My daughter was giving them the universal "Honk your horn" sign, pulling down on an imaginary train whistle control. I think they may have been discussing our presence over their radios. It does help to be riding with two cute ladies. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#59
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
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#60
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Making "protected" bike lanes safe
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 4:00:06 PM UTC-7, AK wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 10:16:45 AM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote: " writes: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 6:48:01 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 1:01:00 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 11:39:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For six or seven years, the loudest and best financed bike lobbying organizations have been saying we need "protected" bike lanes everywhere. They say it's obviously inadequate to have just a paint stripe separating bikes from cars; we need at _least_ posts, and preferably a line of parked cars. You know, so the bicyclists are totally hidden from motorists until the motorist crosses the bike lane to access a street or driveway. Segregation skeptics have been saying for just as long that the "protection" vanishes precisely where the conflicts are worse. And the design adds new surprises to traffic interactions. Surprises in traffic are NOT good. And there have been crashes, just as predicted. A mile of "protected" bike lane put in Columbus, Ohio a few years ago went from 1.5 car-bike crashes per year to 13 crashes (IIRC) in the year it was installed. And here's the latest one: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2019/04/0...e-mixing-zone/ The solution? "Protected" intersections everywhere! https://vimeo.com/86721046 I haven't seen any cost estimates for this new cycling nirvana. That would be interesting. - Frank Krygowski Bike lanes have sufficient "protection" by lines on the street. In many places you have broken glass in the lane and you have to pull out into the full lane. Yesterday there were heavy gusting winds and on the downhills I had to use the entire lane to be able to retain full control. The problem with far too many painted strip bike lanes is that they put the bicyclist smack dab in the door zone of parked cars. I've seen bike lanes that go partway onto the on ramp of a 100 kph 60 mph highway where bicycles are NOT permitted. The problem is that any motorist using such an on ramp does NOT expect to see a bicyclist there. I use the through traffic lane in those areas and ignore the painted bicycle lane entirely. That's also not to mention painted bicycle lanes that end suddenly especially those that do it on a downhill. Cheers Perhaps the solution is to go the other way and build motor vehicle only lanes. This would do essentially the same thing as the bicycle only lanes of separating the big fierce motor vehicles from the small meek bicycles. -- cheers, John B. Oh, you're not an American obviously. If you were from the USA you would know that Interstates are only for motor vehicles. Bicycles are not allowed on Interstates. That's actually up to the individual states. Bicycles are allowed on quite a few western interstates, and, according to Wikipedia, all of them in Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, and Wyoming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-...ss_on_freeways You have to have a death wish to ride a bike on a freeway. Yes and no. On I-5 in Oregon, a lot of it looks like this: https://www.aaroads.com/or/005/i-005...it_033_01a.jpg Avoid the rumble strip and be super cautious at the off-ramps, and its not too bad. And in fact, it's basically the only option in places. Now, in the metro areas, it's a nightmare and basically off limits, although I haven't gone to the ODOT site to figure out exactly which stretches are verboten. The one place on I-5 that is clearly open to cyclists is the stretch over Lake Shasta in California -- and the one place where I would dread riding a bike: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...iverBridge.jpg You gotta cinch up the shorts and stiffen the spine for that crossing. http://tinyurl.com/y5esarfe Lovely non-facility and giant, speeding trucks. I've ridden down to California a bunch of times, but always on the coast. The I-5 corridor is also muy hilly through southern Oregon and northern California. -- Jay Beattie. |
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