Take Care

Budstaff wrote:

"Judith Smith" wrote:
Pete-the -Bike wrote:

I hope this tale will encourage other cyclists to consider how they
will respond if they find themselves in a similar situation to the one
I encountered last week. I was assaulted by a motorist on the B970,
near Aviemore, about 1.7 miles south-west of Inverdruie. I got away
lightly, though badly shaken, with only cuts & bruises. I have
reported the incident to the police. Looking back over what happened,
I have drawn two conclusions:
1. When he passed me (very close) I made what I considered to be a
'non-offensive' gesture, but, with hindsight, I can see that I
shouldn't have made any sort of gesture; as long as you are still
upright there is no point. At best it will achieve nothing; at worst
it could lead to assault, injury, or worse.
2. When he stopped his car, got out, and stood in the middle of the
road, why on earth did I stupidly think I could safely cycle past
him? At that point I should have stopped and waited, ready for a
rapid turn around if approached. If anyone stops and waits for you,
keep your distance (unless you are big, strong, and young or there are
more than one of you!)
Although well aware of this sort of thing happening to others in other
parts of the country, it never crossed my mind that it might happen
here and to me. At my age and with my long cycling experience I
should have known better.

What was the gesture?
How much of the road were you taking up?
Did you know he was there and wanted to pass?
Could you have moved over to the left a bit?

This information was probably not provided as it has no bearing _whatsoever_
on whether the assuault was 'justified'.

The assault would never be justified (unless the driver had been defending
himself), but asserting that a gesture was non-offensive begs the question of
what the gesture was.

That the OP feels it necessary to state that his action was non-offensive
shows that he appreciates that there is such a thing as an offensive gesture
and that such a thing might provoke a response (from some people, at least).
Were it not so, there would be no need to mention the gesture or its apparent
non-offensive nature.

"Budstaff" wrote in message
news

"Judith Smith" wrote in message

What was the gesture?

This information was probably not provided as it has no bearing
_whatsoever_ on whether the assuault was 'justified'.

Indeed not, but I would like to know what the gesture was and how it might
have been interpreted.

Pete-the -Bike wrote:
I hope this tale will encourage other cyclists to consider how they
will respond if they find themselves in a similar situation to the one
I encountered last week. I was assaulted by a motorist on the B970,
near Aviemore, about 1.7 miles south-west of Inverdruie. I got away
lightly, though badly shaken, with only cuts & bruises. I have
reported the incident to the police. Looking back over what happened,
I have drawn two conclusions:

1. When he passed me (very close) I made what I considered to be a
‘non-offensive’ gesture, but, with hindsight, I can see that I
shouldn’t have made any sort of gesture; as long as you are still
upright there is no point. At best it will achieve nothing; at worst
it could lead to assault, injury, or worse.

2. When he stopped his car, got out, and stood in the middle of the
road, why on earth did I stupidly think I could safely cycle past
him? At that point I should have stopped and waited, ready for a
rapid turn around if approached. If anyone stops and waits for you,
keep your distance (unless you are big, strong, and young or there are
more than one of you!)

Although well aware of this sort of thing happening to others in other
parts of the country, it never crossed my mind that it might happen
here and to me. At my age and with my long cycling experience I
should have known better.

Yesterday, a driver of a Volvo estate overtook me just before turning
left, causing me to "snatch-up". I, too, gave a non-offensive gesture
(wave of arm). First he slowed down in front of me and was looking over
his shoulder. After a few minutes, he's alongside me again (must have
turned around somewhere), deliberately squeezing me into the curb,
Frightened for my life, I took a turning left (lucky for me was just 20
yards away).

Judith Smith wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

WARNING: The person who posts here under the name 'Judith Smith' is a
known troll, is not a cyclist and has no interest in or knowledge of
cycling. A search of the google groups archive will reveal an
established history of nym-shifting, forgery, obsessive cyberstalking
and attempting to mislead readers by quoting statistics taken out of
context.


The person who posts here as susanwoodhouse has now posted here twice
- seems to be obsessed with me.

She usually posts here under a different name - probably Guy Jackson.

She has already been told that her antics are likely to turn the
group to rat-**** (a prediction - not a threat) but she has chosen to
ignore.

That's a huge steaming great pile of hypocrisy which is beneath even you.

Roger Thorpe

"James" wrote in message ...

Yesterday, a driver of a Volvo estate overtook me just before turning
left, causing me to "snatch-up". I, too, gave a non-offensive gesture
(wave of arm). First he slowed down in front of me and was looking over
his shoulder. After a few minutes, he's alongside me again (must have
turned around somewhere), deliberately squeezing me into the curb,
Frightened for my life, I took a turning left (lucky for me was just 20
yards away).

Take primary position past junctions even if you are turning left anyway. It
stops this from happening as they cannot pass if you are in the centre of
lane. This manoeuvre is covered in Cyclecraft.

"Pete-the -Bike" wrote in message
...
I hope this tale will encourage other cyclists to consider how they
will respond if they find themselves in a similar situation to the one
I encountered last week. I was assaulted by a motorist on the B970,
near Aviemore, about 1.7 miles south-west of Inverdruie. I got away
lightly, though badly shaken, with only cuts & bruises. I have
reported the incident to the police. Looking back over what happened,
I have drawn two conclusions:

1. When he passed me (very close) I made what I considered to be a
‘non-offensive’ gesture, but, with hindsight, I can see that I
shouldn’t have made any sort of gesture; as long as you are still
upright there is no point. At best it will achieve nothing; at worst
it could lead to assault, injury, or worse.

2. When he stopped his car, got out, and stood in the middle of the
road, why on earth did I stupidly think I could safely cycle past
him? At that point I should have stopped and waited, ready for a
rapid turn around if approached. If anyone stops and waits for you,
keep your distance (unless you are big, strong, and young or there are
more than one of you!)

Although well aware of this sort of thing happening to others in other
parts of the country, it never crossed my mind that it might happen
here and to me. At my age and with my long cycling experience I
should have known better.






I'm sorry to hear this.

Peace and "chill-out" is the best for everyone.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:06:43 +0100, Roger Thorpe
wrote:

Judith Smith wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

WARNING: The person who posts here under the name 'Judith Smith' is a
known troll, is not a cyclist and has no interest in or knowledge of
cycling. A search of the google groups archive will reveal an
established history of nym-shifting, forgery, obsessive cyberstalking
and attempting to mislead readers by quoting statistics taken out of
context.


The person who posts here as susanwoodhouse has now posted here twice
- seems to be obsessed with me.

She usually posts here under a different name - probably Guy Jackson.

She has already been told that her antics are likely to turn the
group to rat-**** (a prediction - not a threat) but she has chosen to
ignore.

That's a huge steaming great pile of hypocrisy which is beneath even you.

Roge

I hope you are not suggesting that disagreeing with people - not
toeing the party line - explaining deceit and exposing lies is
"turning the group to rat-****"; you certainly seem to be implying
so.

Perhaps you can explain why one of the whiter than white regulars
should post under a different name to warn people not to listen read
and correspond with other posters.

I note that Chapman encourages people to exchange e-mails on who and
who is not persona non grata in the URC FAQS.

Does he really believe that he is the owner and champion of the group?

But that of course is acceptable to the regulars isn't it.

This is where the real hypocrisy in the is group surfaces - the chosen
few can do/say what they like - but let a "troll" do so and ton of
bricks is the order of the day.

--

"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.

A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:24:39 +0100, "Budstaff"
wrote:

snip

What was the gesture?

How much of the road were you taking up?

Did you know he was there and wanted to pass?

Could you have moved over to the left a bit?



This information was probably not provided as it has no bearing _whatsoever_
on whether the assuault was 'justified'.


"justified" - not too sure why you have introduced the word - was
anyone suggesting it was?

It would have all been useful material for people to form a balanced
view.

Oh - sorry - we don't need that do we?

Balance in urc? - no, no.

What if the answers to the questions we

What was the gesture? - I gave him the Vee and shouted ****-off.

How much of the road were you taking up? - I was in the middle of the
road - so effectively most of it?

Did you know he was there and wanted to pass? - yes he had given me a
polite pip.


Could you have moved over to the left a bit? - Well I could have done
- but I have as much right to be on the road as he has - so I had
adopted the primary position.


I am not suggesting that this is what happened - but the answers would
have been useful in order to more fully understand. (god forbid)

--

"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.

A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.

For the sake of clarity I will answer these questions as clearly as I
can

What was the gesture?
After he had overtaken me I moved my right hand from left to right to
indicate that he was too close and should have given me more room, he
blasted his horn so I repeated the movement. Even if I had given him
the full fingers and shouted obscenities there was no justification
for his actions.

How much of the road were you taking up?
The amount of room a cyclist normally takes up. Maybe you are asking
my positioning on the road. Although a B road it is narrow, in places
there is only just room for vehicles to pass each other. I was
cycling on the left close to the grass verge.

Did you know he was there and wanted to pass?
The road was quiet, as they all are up here in Scotalnd and I was
aware there were occasional cars passing me, I am don't think I held
him up. Even if I did it is not unreasonable to expect a motorist to
wait a few seconds until it is safe to pass a cyclist. This route is
after all part of the National Cycle Network, it would be nice to
think cyclist using this route might be treated with a bit of courtesy
(respect is probably too much to hope for).

Could you have moved over to the left a bit?
NO

I am puzzled by the personal insults people seem to send each other in
this group. Surely such groups are for information exchange

Pete-the -Bike wrote:

I am puzzled by the personal insults people seem to send each other in
this group. Surely such groups are for information exchange


It used to be that, and sometimes it still is. Unfortunately some
posters here don't ride bikes at all, but enjoy winding people up,
provoking arguments and arguing over semantics. Others have pet issues
which ought not to matter, but since the only cyclists (including
me)left here have become argumentative then it does seem to.
It's a disparate group, so please don't judge us all by the behaviour of
some. Frankly we need more posters like you.

As for your gesture, it seems to me that it may communicate a useful
message to the driver or it may antagonise them. It's a dilemma that
we've all been in and there's no way to predict which way it will go,
but I do think that you were extremely unlucky and probably have the
sympathy of the cyclists here and some of the others too.

Roger Thorpe