Tubular rim that would not crack

On Nov 13, 6:04*am, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
James wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:49 am, *wrote:
On Nov 12, 9:41 am, Frank
wrote:

James wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:48 pm, Michael * *wrote:
... *Mavic are notorious for bad
rims. Do not defend them. Do not prescribe
band aids for staph infection.

Do not denigrate a light weight rim intended for racing on by light
people because you have trouble with it.

I just spent some time looking around the Mavic site. *I didn't see
where they use phrases like "intended for racing by light people," nor
"not intended to support heavy arsed folks."

Maybe those phrases are there, but they certainly don't jump out. *Can
you give a link?

Ask a lard arse in the industry.

http://www.superclydesdale.com/?p=1055

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic...s/ROUTE/Jantes...

"Each rim has been designed for a specific use and discipline (road,
cross-country, downhill, touring…). Any other use of a rim for which
it has not been designed
is highly inadvisable, the sole responsibility of the user and voids
the Mavic warranty."

http://www.mavic.com/sites/default/f..._BikeSystems_2...

"The reference rim for high
performance wheel building
Open Pro is the latest version of Mavic “Open”
rims, and as such is the most advanced
evolution. Optimized up to the limit of material
potential, Open Pro is probably the best road
rim available."

That says to me, not suitable to lard arsed folks.

"Thanks to its 23mm aero shaped profi le,
CXP 33 slices through the air, while its Maxtal
alloy keeps its weight low. SUP welded and
eyeleted, CXP 33 is also very strong and
durable."

That says to me, more appropriate for lard arses on the road for
racing.

"Featuring the most renown Mavic
technologies, A 719 is the benchmark rim for
the trekking and tour market (All Road). SUP
welded, wide, UB Control machined braking
surface, you can rely on its endurance to
accumulate kilometers in the roughest road
conditions."

- or even -

"Featuring high quality 6106 alloy and double
eyelets, this 25mm wide rim is perfectly
adapted to today’s trekkers and tourers. It is
strong, durable and allows the use of tyres up
to 50mm."

Says to me even better still for those with a lard filled arse or
those who carry extra baggage.

Your "Says to me" can be translated as "I'm using this for vague
justification of my prejudices."

I'd be satisfied if Mavic said something like "Maximum recommended load
100 kg..." or whatever, especially if they completed the sentence with
"... else the spoke bed will fail." *Furthermore, such a statement
should be prominent when you look at the first image of the rim. *As it
is, the potential customer has to search for and wade through vague
recommendations.

I'm not one of them, but some people are heavy. *Others carry heavy
loads on their bikes. They deserve to be told when components are too
flimsy for their use.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Stop being an idiot. It's generally quite obvious which rims and
wheels are aimed at racing. If you are packing panniers or parcel
racks, don't use racing rims. The clue tends to be in the tyre size
they are meant for, but any rim of 25mm width or less is suspect. If
you are of typical weight and packing a saddlebag and handlebar bag
then a 25mm front tyre and 28mm rear tyre would likely be sufficient
for good road surfaces. This indicates a race style rim is possible
but only in the heavier weights meant for training. If you are
following rough tracks then 32mm tyres become a minimum necessity.
They can also be used for the more well-endowed midrift on smooth
roads, but must be backed up with the relevant rim, which is not a
racing rim and will probably be 27 or 28mm wide. Go up to 42mm tyre
with an appropriate width rim and even the fat-arsed can ride off-road
although a heavy sprung saddle will assist if it's too much effort for
them to stand up from time to time when the going gets really rough.

On Nov 13, 9:00*am, James wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:04*pm, Frank Krygowski
wrote:









James wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:49 am, *wrote:
On Nov 12, 9:41 am, Frank
wrote:

James wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:48 pm, Michael * *wrote:
... *Mavic are notorious for bad
rims. Do not defend them. Do not prescribe
band aids for staph infection.

Do not denigrate a light weight rim intended for racing on by light
people because you have trouble with it.

I just spent some time looking around the Mavic site. *I didn't see
where they use phrases like "intended for racing by light people," nor
"not intended to support heavy arsed folks."

Maybe those phrases are there, but they certainly don't jump out. *Can
you give a link?

Ask a lard arse in the industry.

http://www.superclydesdale.com/?p=1055

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic...s/ROUTE/Jantes....

"Each rim has been designed for a specific use and discipline (road,
cross-country, downhill, touring…). Any other use of a rim for which
it has not been designed
is highly inadvisable, the sole responsibility of the user and voids
the Mavic warranty."

http://www.mavic.com/sites/default/f..._BikeSystems_2....

"The reference rim for high
performance wheel building
Open Pro is the latest version of Mavic “Open”
rims, and as such is the most advanced
evolution. Optimized up to the limit of material
potential, Open Pro is probably the best road
rim available."

That says to me, not suitable to lard arsed folks.

"Thanks to its 23mm aero shaped profi le,
CXP 33 slices through the air, while its Maxtal
alloy keeps its weight low. SUP welded and
eyeleted, CXP 33 is also very strong and
durable."

That says to me, more appropriate for lard arses on the road for
racing.

"Featuring the most renown Mavic
technologies, A 719 is the benchmark rim for
the trekking and tour market (All Road). SUP
welded, wide, UB Control machined braking
surface, you can rely on its endurance to
accumulate kilometers in the roughest road
conditions."

- or even -

"Featuring high quality 6106 alloy and double
eyelets, this 25mm wide rim is perfectly
adapted to today’s trekkers and tourers. It is
strong, durable and allows the use of tyres up
to 50mm."

Says to me even better still for those with a lard filled arse or
those who carry extra baggage.

Your "Says to me" can be translated as "I'm using this for vague
justification of my prejudices."

I'd be satisfied if Mavic said something like "Maximum recommended load
100 kg..." or whatever, especially if they completed the sentence with
"... else the spoke bed will fail." *Furthermore, such a statement
should be prominent when you look at the first image of the rim. *As it
is, the potential customer has to search for and wade through vague
recommendations.

I'm not one of them, but some people are heavy. *Others carry heavy
loads on their bikes. They deserve to be told when components are too
flimsy for their use.

The components will still "work". *They will not likely fail
immediately. *They will likely not last as long as they would if only
lightly loaded.

It is up to the sales representative to suggest an appropriate tool
for the job.

Tying and soldering their teeth together.

What bicycles have a load limit specified by the manufacturer?

--
JS.

James wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:04 pm, Frank
wrote:
James wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:49 am, wrote:
On Nov 12, 9:41 am, Frank
wrote:

James wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:48 pm, Michael wrote:
... Mavic are notorious for bad
rims. Do not defend them. Do not prescribe
band aids for staph infection.

Do not denigrate a light weight rim intended for racing on by light
people because you have trouble with it.

I just spent some time looking around the Mavic site. I didn't see
where they use phrases like "intended for racing by light people," nor
"not intended to support heavy arsed folks."

Maybe those phrases are there, but they certainly don't jump out. Can
you give a link?

Ask a lard arse in the industry.

http://www.superclydesdale.com/?p=1055

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic...s/ROUTE/Jantes...

"Each rim has been designed for a specific use and discipline (road,
cross-country, downhill, touring…). Any other use of a rim for which
it has not been designed
is highly inadvisable, the sole responsibility of the user and voids
the Mavic warranty."

http://www.mavic.com/sites/default/f..._BikeSystems_2...

"The reference rim for high
performance wheel building
Open Pro is the latest version of Mavic “Open”
rims, and as such is the most advanced
evolution. Optimized up to the limit of material
potential, Open Pro is probably the best road
rim available."

That says to me, not suitable to lard arsed folks....

Your "Says to me" can be translated as "I'm using this for vague
justification of my prejudices."

I'd be satisfied if Mavic said something like "Maximum recommended load
100 kg..." or whatever, especially if they completed the sentence with
"... else the spoke bed will fail." Furthermore, such a statement
should be prominent when you look at the first image of the rim. As it
is, the potential customer has to search for and wade through vague
recommendations.

I'm not one of them, but some people are heavy. Others carry heavy
loads on their bikes. They deserve to be told when components are too
flimsy for their use.

The components will still "work". They will not likely fail
immediately. They will likely not last as long as they would if only
lightly loaded.

Well, I suppose there may be road racers who ascribe to the drag racing
mentality on equipment durability. Many dedicated drag racers rebuild
their engine after just one run, IOW after about one mile of travel.

But what we've seen here are repeated complaints that Mavics don't last
as long as many people expect, and they fail in ways most other rims don't.

I don't know your weight. Perhaps you're a 130 pound (60 kg) guy who
never has equipment durability problems. But that doesn't mean that a
200 pound guy should have wheels cracking under him. And there's
nothing in the paragraph I quote below that says "Not for big sprint
specialists."

Here's that paragraph: ""The reference rim for high performance wheel
building Open Pro is the latest version of Mavic “Open” rims, and as
such is the most advanced evolution. Optimized up to the limit of
material potential, Open Pro is probably the best road rim available."


It is up to the sales representative to suggest an appropriate tool
for the job.

:-) You mean that teenager just hired at the bike shop? The one that
said "Um... what's a spoke wrench?"

What bicycles have a load limit specified by the manufacturer?

Maybe the same ones that cracked after just two years of use for lots of
riders? But you're right, I don't know of such a bicycle. Seems frame
builders take more care with their product design.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Nov 13, 4:16*am, thirty-six wrote:
On Nov 13, 6:20*am, Phil W Lee wrote:









Joe Riel considered Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:25:30 -0800
the perfect time to write:

thirty-six writes:

On Nov 12, 5:22*pm, Joe Riel wrote:

What is wrong? *Even if you cut out the bottom NDS spoke, the
lateral stiffness should remain symmetric, though it will be smaller
than before. *The real asymmetry comes when there is a structural
change, that is the spoke tension goes to zero in one-direction.

The supporting spoke structure for the rim is all but the bottom-most
spokes.

Only if the wheel is built such that the bottom spokes go slack
when loaded.

You have it arse over tit. *First of all a typical aluminium alloy
bicycle rim is immensely strong. *The spokes most influential at any
one time are those at the front and rear quadrants of the wheel. *They
always increase in tension as the load increases, they prevent the rim
from spreading out at the front and rear.

Try measuring that increase in tension.

A decrease in spoke
tension in the bottom quadrant as the load is appied is normal, it is
not a reflection of inadequate build or lack of support

Of course spoke tension decreases in the bottom, that's how the
load is supported. *The issue is whether the tension goes to zero.

It probably does on Trevor's wheels, which is why he sees an increase
in tension elsewhere - the hub is left to hang from the upper spokes.

No, the hub is suspended between at least 3/4 of the spokes at any
moment and effective cross-bracing of the spokes assist in maintaining
hub height despite rim deflection at the road. *With 15 or 16 s.w.g
spokes I find it not too uncommon that I can traverse lumps and bumps
at speed without concern as the spokes tinkle beneath me. *The key to
a good wheel is raising the stiffness of the spoke assembly not
raising spoke tension.

Tinkling wheels?... utter nonsense.

James wrote:

snip

What bicycles have a load limit specified by the manufacturer?


Bike Friday does:

http://www.bikefriday.com/service/service_library/7

I'm not aware of any others though.

On Nov 13, 4:58*pm, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
James wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:04 pm, Frank
wrote:
James wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:49 am, * *wrote:
On Nov 12, 9:41 am, Frank
wrote:

James wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:48 pm, Michael * * *wrote:
... *Mavic are notorious for bad
rims. Do not defend them. Do not prescribe
band aids for staph infection.

Do not denigrate a light weight rim intended for racing on by light
people because you have trouble with it.

I just spent some time looking around the Mavic site. *I didn't see
where they use phrases like "intended for racing by light people," nor
"not intended to support heavy arsed folks."

Maybe those phrases are there, but they certainly don't jump out. *Can
you give a link?

Ask a lard arse in the industry.

http://www.superclydesdale.com/?p=1055

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic...s/ROUTE/Jantes....

"Each rim has been designed for a specific use and discipline (road,
cross-country, downhill, touring…). Any other use of a rim for which
it has not been designed
is highly inadvisable, the sole responsibility of the user and voids
the Mavic warranty."

http://www.mavic.com/sites/default/f..._BikeSystems_2....

"The reference rim for high
performance wheel building
Open Pro is the latest version of Mavic “Open”
rims, and as such is the most advanced
evolution. Optimized up to the limit of material
potential, Open Pro is probably the best road
rim available."

That says to me, not suitable to lard arsed folks....

Your "Says to me" can be translated as "I'm using this for vague
justification of my prejudices."

I'd be satisfied if Mavic said something like "Maximum recommended load
100 kg..." or whatever, especially if they completed the sentence with
"... else the spoke bed will fail." *Furthermore, such a statement
should be prominent when you look at the first image of the rim. *As it
is, the potential customer has to search for and wade through vague
recommendations.

I'm not one of them, but some people are heavy. *Others carry heavy
loads on their bikes. They deserve to be told when components are too
flimsy for their use.

The components will still "work". *They will not likely fail
immediately. *They will likely not last as long as they would if only
lightly loaded.

Well, I suppose there may be road racers who ascribe to the drag racing

Why else do you think they wear ankle socks, shave their legs, oil
them up and stick out their booty. A lot of these guys have handbags
loaded with products that'd impress Edna Everidge.

mentality on equipment durability.

Use a thicker condom.

*Many dedicated drag racers rebuild
their engine after just one run,

Somehow I knew you would be in with this crowd.

IOW after about one mile of travel.

Wow, that's some going. No-one can call that premature.

But what we've seen here are repeated complaints that Mavics don't last
as long as many people expect, and they fail in ways most other rims don't.

James wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:49 am, James wrote:
On Nov 12, 9:41 am, Frank Krygowski
wrote:



James wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:48 pm, Michael wrote:
... Mavic are notorious for bad
rims. Do not defend them. Do not prescribe
band aids for staph infection.
Do not denigrate a light weight rim intended for racing on by light
people because you have trouble with it.
I just spent some time looking around the Mavic site. I didn't see
where they use phrases like "intended for racing by light people," nor
"not intended to support heavy arsed folks."
Maybe those phrases are there, but they certainly don't jump out. Can
you give a link?
Ask a lard arse in the industry.

http://www.superclydesdale.com/?p=1055

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic...on_Use_Rim.pdf

"Each rim has been designed for a specific use and discipline (road,
cross-country, downhill, touring…). Any other use of a rim for which
it has not been designed
is highly inadvisable, the sole responsibility of the user and voids
the Mavic warranty."

http://www.mavic.com/sites/default/f..._2012_EN_0.pdf

"The reference rim for high
performance wheel building
Open Pro is the latest version of Mavic “Open”
rims, and as such is the most advanced
evolution. Optimized up to the limit of material
potential, Open Pro is probably the best road
rim available."

That says to me, not suitable to lard arsed folks.

"Thanks to its 23mm aero shaped profi le,
CXP 33 slices through the air, while its Maxtal
alloy keeps its weight low. SUP welded and
eyeleted, CXP 33 is also very strong and
durable."

That says to me, more appropriate for lard arses on the road for
racing.

"Featuring the most renown Mavic
technologies, A 719 is the benchmark rim for
the trekking and tour market (All Road). SUP
welded, wide, UB Control machined braking
surface, you can rely on its endurance to
accumulate kilometers in the roughest road
conditions."

- or even -

"Featuring high quality 6106 alloy and double
eyelets, this 25mm wide rim is perfectly
adapted to today’s trekkers and tourers. It is
strong, durable and allows the use of tyres up
to 50mm."

Says to me even better still for those with a lard filled arse or
those who carry extra baggage.


And what does the term "Made in France" tell you?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

-snip-
thirty-six wrote:
Stop being an idiot.
-snip-


OK, that was funny.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

James wrote:
snip
What bicycles have a load limit specified by the manufacturer?

Gary Young wrote:
Bike Friday does:
http://www.bikefriday.com/service/service_library/7
I'm not aware of any others though.

Here you a
http://www.trekbikes.com/faq/questio...questionid=104
http://www.lightningbikes.com/bikefit.htm
http://www.livestrong.com/article/49...weight-limits/
http://www.bike-manual.com/brands/fi..._condition.htm

and also:
http://www.hedcycling.com/pdf/hed_2011.pdf

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
James wrote:
snip
What bicycles have a load limit specified by the manufacturer?

Gary Young wrote:
Bike Friday does:
http://www.bikefriday.com/service/service_library/7
I'm not aware of any others though.

Here you a
http://www.trekbikes.com/faq/questio...questionid=104
http://www.lightningbikes.com/bikefit.htm
http://www.livestrong.com/article/49...weight-limits/
http://www.bike-manual.com/brands/fi..._condition.htm

and also:
http://www.hedcycling.com/pdf/hed_2011.pdf

Interesting! Seems like 200 pounds is the lowest weight mentioned for
bikes with full-sized wheels, and that's for a Huffy! Even that is a
"tested for," not "weight limit." Gary Fisher and Trek both say 275
pounds for a drop-bar road bike.

I doubt that a high percentage of Huffy bikes use Mavic rims.

Would you say a top of the line Trek is intended for "lard asses"?


--
- Frank Krygowski