"mountain" and "road" pedals

"* * Chas" wrote in message
. ..

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"* * Chas" wrote:

I still ride with toe clips because I haven't found any clipless
shoes
that comfortably fit my size 10 1/2 EEEE feet (size 44-45 ultra
wide)!

I had trouble fitting the width of my feet until I
started buying longer shoes; longer than the nominal
length of my feet. Suddenly the width problem
disappeared. I eventually was told that my feet are
10 1/2 from heel to arch, though they are nominal
9 1/2 E* overall. From arch to toes my feet are wider
and shorter than the `norm', though the sheer numbers
of people who have trouble fitting width suggest that
shoe manufacturers deliberately make shoes narrower
than they should. A shoe that fits too narrowly at the
metatarsal arch will wear out more quickly by bursting
the upper and tearing out of the welt.

--
Michael Press

I have the same kind of feet. Great for swimming but tough to find shoes
that fit. When I was in my teens I wore size 12 1/2 or 13 E shoes for
the same reason. As I got older and could afford better quality shoes I
could get size 11 E that fit. My feet have gradually gotten shorter and
wider while my high arch has remained the same.

I found that with cycling shoes that are too long, they eventually
stretch from the back and forth stresses of pedaling and I start to get
heal blisters or they start to dig into the tops of my toes from flexing
while walking. I tried on several pairs of Shimano clipless shoes (45 &
46) that were to long they had both problems.

I still have 3 pairs of old fashioned cycling shoes left. When they wear
out I'll have to bite the bullet.

Chas.


I remember that there are companies that offer custom made cyling shoes.

Lou

"Lou Holtman" wrote in message
...

"* * Chas" wrote in message
. ..

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"* * Chas" wrote:

I still ride with toe clips because I haven't found any clipless
shoes
that comfortably fit my size 10 1/2 EEEE feet (size 44-45 ultra
wide)!

I had trouble fitting the width of my feet until I
started buying longer shoes; longer than the nominal
length of my feet. Suddenly the width problem
disappeared. I eventually was told that my feet are
10 1/2 from heel to arch, though they are nominal
9 1/2 E* overall. From arch to toes my feet are wider
and shorter than the `norm', though the sheer numbers
of people who have trouble fitting width suggest that
shoe manufacturers deliberately make shoes narrower
than they should. A shoe that fits too narrowly at the
metatarsal arch will wear out more quickly by bursting
the upper and tearing out of the welt.

--
Michael Press

I have the same kind of feet. Great for swimming but tough to find
shoes
that fit. When I was in my teens I wore size 12 1/2 or 13 E shoes
for
the same reason. As I got older and could afford better quality
shoes I
could get size 11 E that fit. My feet have gradually gotten shorter
and
wider while my high arch has remained the same.

I found that with cycling shoes that are too long, they eventually
stretch from the back and forth stresses of pedaling and I start to
get
heal blisters or they start to dig into the tops of my toes from
flexing
while walking. I tried on several pairs of Shimano clipless shoes
(45 &
46) that were to long they had both problems.

I still have 3 pairs of old fashioned cycling shoes left. When they
wear
out I'll have to bite the bullet.

Chas.


I remember that there are companies that offer custom made cyling
shoes.

Lou

The main complaint I remember about toeclips and straps was foot
discomfort on long rides due to being tightly strapped in for climbing
and sprinting. These days I'm only doing 25-30 mile rides so it hasn't
been a problem.

The other issue was walking in riding shoes with cleats. Besides being
slippery I used to have to replace the old metal cleats two or three
times a year because the aluminum plates would crack. I guess that
clipless road shoes still present a walking problem.

Chas.

"Eric" wrote in message
oups.com...

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:


You will be considered a "Fred" if you use ATB pedals on a road
bike.
This offense is a serious as wearing a wool jersey, riding a steel
framed bicycle, having conventional 36-spoke wheels, down-tube or
bar-end shifters, less than 10 gears in back, a triple crank in
front,
tires wider than 23-mm, fenders, etc.

Apart from the wool jersey, you just described me!


Likewise but I still have some nice old wool jerseys. It was cool today
so I broke out a classic long sleeve one for my ride today.

Polypropylene undershirt, wool jersey and Gore-Tex windbreaker, great
layering.

Chas.

Jim Higson wrote:
I'm looking to buy some clipless pedals for my mountain and road bikes. I
don't really want to buy two pairs of shoes or have to keep swapping cleats
over. I also want pedals that work with "walkable" shoes.

I'm thinking of just putting double-sided "mountain" type SPD pedals on both
bikes. They appeal because they're cheap and fit the requirements of only
needing one pair of shoes. Shimano's entry level M520 look OK, and the more
expensive models seems just to offer weight reduction, which I'm not all
that bothered about. Plus the double-sided thing sounds like a good idea
for the road as well as off it for getting in and out quickly at traffic
lights.

Will they cause any problems on the road bike? Really, I can't really see
there being all that much difference in the performance of pedals for
road/mountain use. I mostly do fairly fast riding at weekends, and some
light touring.

The only alternative I can find of road/mountain pedals that use the same
cleats is the Crank Bros ones. The egg beaters look very... interesting.
Maybe I'll try some one day.

On a related note, what makes the egg beaters "XC" pedals and not road
racing pedals? I'd have thought it'd road racers would take the reduced
weight version over the MTBers. What makes the nude egg beaters unsuited to
road cycling?

Thanks for any insight,


Since I have both road & MTB's I standardized on SPD pedals for all of
them. Be aware that SPD's have 2 types of cleat -- the "single release"
and the "multi release". The only difference is that the multi release
cleats will release when you roll your foot -- both types release the
same when you twist (either direction). Preference is personal, I like
the multi release cleats because I have fewer problems with
unintentional releases than with pedals not releasing in falls
(off-road). My reflexes have become tuned to the multis, making switches
to the singles a bit problematic.

If you buy SPD clones (like Wellgo) be aware that not all models are
completely SPD compatible. You have to read the fine print. Those that
are work well with Shimano cleats and vice versa.

I dislike single sided pedals for a couple of reasons. The first is that
double sided are almost completely redundant. I've had mechanisms break
or get clogged. The other main issue is getting them right side up,
particularly in the dark. The single sided SPD pedals I've used were not
"self-righting".

In addition to MTB pedals, I use MTB shoes all the time. Among shoes
like Sidis, there's virtually no difference except for the sole, and
that's a big difference off the bike.

I've never noticed an "image" problem around here (Boston), lots of
roadies use MTB pedals/shoes. Of course the more "serious" roadies
almost all use Looks (team racers, etc.) but they *really* suck off the
bike. I ride hard with SPDs, and don't find pullouts to be a problem,
even with a fixed gear where pulling up hard is sometimes necessary.
I've seen pullouts with all kinds of pedals -- Look cleats become
untrustworthy when worn down, which happens fairly quickly since they're
plastic. SPDs were developed for mountain biking where high effort and
off balance situations are normal and the consequences of pullout are at
least as severe.

Some people feel that larger cleats are more comfortable, but strangely
those people are usually those who don't ride long distances. Among
brevet riders and touring riders SPDs are more popular, I doubt they
would be if comfort was really an issue. I do brevets and long multi-day
tours and have found foot comfort to be related to shoes, not cleats.

Egg Beaters have a lot of fans. The only complaint I hear a lot is that
the cleats wear relatively quickly. I have one friend who claimed his
failed to release in a low speed fall (off road) and wound up with a
very bad twisting fracture in his lower leg. He no longer uses them. I
stopped using PowerGrips for the same reason, I found that if I fell the
wrong way they didn't release, which was the main reason I gave up clips
so many years ago.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:01:35 -0700, * * Chas wrote:


I'm not opposed to clipless and I like to try some. I just don't want
spend $200-$300 for shoes just to see if they will work for me.

You might start out with non-custom shoes just to see if the pedals/cleats
work for you, then lay out the big bucks for shoes that really fit if and
when you decide to go with the clipless.

I'm betting you will like them, though. I recommend mountain-type shoes
with recessed cleats, so you can walk. I use Speedplay Frogs, and love
them.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |

Jim Higson wrote:
I'm looking to buy some clipless pedals for my mountain and road bikes. I
don't really want to buy two pairs of shoes or have to keep swapping cleats
over. I also want pedals that work with "walkable" shoes.

The only alternative I can find of road/mountain pedals that use the same
cleats is the Crank Bros ones. The egg beaters look very... interesting.
Maybe I'll try some one day.

On a related note, what makes the egg beaters "XC" pedals and not road
racing pedals? I'd have thought it'd road racers would take the reduced
weight version over the MTBers. What makes the nude egg beaters unsuited to
road cycling?

I recommend you get the Eggbeaters. They work perfectly fine on a road
bike and the four-sided entry is immensely useful for clipping in
quickly after a stop in traffic. The excellent ground clearance and low
weight doesn't hurt either. The cleats aren't held in by spring tension
like SPDs so you can't accidentally clip out of them when pulling hard.
The only real disadvantages are that you can roll your foot off the
pedal when riding unclipped and you can untentionally unclip if you
bash the bottom of the peal on a rock. The former is not a problem with
practice and the latter shouldn't be an issue on a road bike. There was
at least one pro roadie racing on them in years past.

If you can find them, you should get a pair of the now-discontinued
Look 4x4s which are original style eggbeaters with a superior needle
bearing on the inboard side. Barring that, look for the EB SL (or S) or
Quattros. The latter being a roadie tailored version also with a better
inboard bearing. All EBs will work with two bolt "mountain" shoes which
is what you will have to go with to meet your walkability requirement.
You don't need the platform provided by the Quattro, Candy and other
models. I have the Candies for winter use but personally prefer the
platformless design for my normal riding.

On 15 Oct 2006 11:47:16 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:

Are there any shoes that combine a non-slippery walk-able sole,
recessed cleat, AND fit wide feet? The Shimano shoes Jobst likes look
promising, but my experience with Shimano shoes is that they are too
narrow in the toe box for my feet.

I've used a couple of wide Lake MTB shoes over the past couple of
years. They've been pretty good. I also own a pair of Sidi Genius 4
Mega road shoes (used with MTB cleats). They're really comfortable,
but I almost never wear them as the "duck walk" annoys me too much.
My most comfortable biking shoes by far are my Shimano sandals. Open
toes and adjustable straps make them imminently customizable.

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:01:35 -0700, * * Chas wrote:

I'm not opposed to clipless and I like to try some. I just don't want
spend $200-$300 for shoes just to see if they will work for me.

My first pair of MTB shoes were $40 at Performance. You can easily
buy pedals, cleats included, for $40. Heck, right now, I see Nashbar
has the following deal:

Combo Sale:
Buy Nashbar Sport Mountain Shoe & Nashbar Special ATB Pedal and save!
Only $54.95

http://www.nashbar.com/profile_combo.cfm?combo=12012

Or, if you insist on road-style shoes:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...d=&sku=1657 7

Admittedly, neither of these are listed as coming in wide sizes, and I
don't know anything about those particular products. But you can try
out clipless for a relatively small cost. If you like it, you can
upgrade the shoes or pedals independently, as long as you maintain
cleat-bolt-pattern compatibility (SPD-pattern in this case).

-alan



--
Alan Hoyle - - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Alan Hoyle wrote:
On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:01:35 -0700, * * Chas wrote:

I'm not opposed to clipless and I like to try some. I just don't want
spend $200-$300 for shoes just to see if they will work for me.

My first pair of MTB shoes were $40 at Performance. You can easily
buy pedals, cleats included, for $40. Heck, right now, I see Nashbar
has the following deal:

Combo Sale:
Buy Nashbar Sport Mountain Shoe & Nashbar Special ATB Pedal and save!
Only $54.95

http://www.nashbar.com/profile_combo.cfm?combo=12012


That is a good deal. However, those pedals are *not* SPD cleat
compatible. That's only a problem if you want to ride SPDs and these
pedals on different bikes using the same shoes. The pedals themselves
are a good value.



Or, if you insist on road-style shoes:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...d=&sku=1657 7

Admittedly, neither of these are listed as coming in wide sizes, and I
don't know anything about those particular products. But you can try
out clipless for a relatively small cost. If you like it, you can
upgrade the shoes or pedals independently, as long as you maintain
cleat-bolt-pattern compatibility (SPD-pattern in this case).

-alan



--
Alan Hoyle - - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:08:16 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" wrote:

I have come to prefer the "single release" SH-51 "S" SPD cleats over the
"multi-release" SH-55 "M" cleats as they offer a few degrees of float
and do not have the same potential for accidental release when
hammering.

Same here. Also I think the single-release are easier to find on sale,
and last longer.

Yeah, what he said. I've been running Ritchey SPD pedals on most of the
road bike rides I've done for many years. They're also single-release
pedals and cleats, and I've had very little isssue with them popping out
even though I tend to keep the pedal release tension set fairly low.
Granted, if a ride was going to turn into an all-out sprint-fest I'd opt
for the trusty Look pedals and cleats (and the nicer shoes they're
attached to), but for 99.5% of the riding I do, they work great (and
look more "svelte" than the semi-clunky Look pedals - so you see, the
fashion thing can go both ways). ;-)

I'm sure Ritchey pedals and cleats are great together, but I've had
problems using Ritchey cleats with Shimano pedals. Other riders I know
have reported the same problem mixing various brands. So while SPD-type
pedals are advertised as being cross-compatible, they're really not. IMO
Shimano are still the best, but they're all pretty good as long as you
stick with the same brand of pedals and cleats.

I use Shimano "MTB" SPDs on both my bikes, with "MTB" shoes. Some people
report fewer problems with "hotspots" and pulling out with road pedals,
but I've never had these problems. Unless you do, there's no reason to
use the far less convenient single sided road pedals, with oversized, less
walkable cleats.

Matt O.