|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
Keats WHO? wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 1, 8:44 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" wrote: Why does Google add the back-slashes adjacent to the quote marks? Why doesn't Google honor the signature separator? The world wonders. Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class citizenship for cyclists? What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities. OK, OK, that makes sense. Nobody should say that bikers stink. But we also need lanes for bikes only. Or if not we just restrict cars like they did in London and Italy --for one day. No car no problem! Italian cities ban cars from streets Independent, The (London), Jan 29, 2007 ROME Cars and motor scooters were banned in Rome, Milan and other Italian cities yesterday, leaving residents to walk, ride bikes or use public transport. The ban, lasting most of the day, was put in place to lower pollution levels. Other cities banning cars were Brescia, Como and Varese in the Lombardy region. The ban is often implemented during winter. No offense intended (hehe) donquijote1954, but I think you've been smoking some of Johnny Sunset's hemp bike seat cover. Nope, all three are intact. What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located in a business somewhere?... The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes, licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle? -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote in message .. . Keats WHO? wrote: What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located in a business somewhere?... The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes, licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle? -- I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
Keats wrote:
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote in message .. . Keats WHO? wrote: What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located in a business somewhere?... The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes, licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle? -- I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes. The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy tool. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy tool. Wow! A real discussion with substance. Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many things. Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government and the services it provides. Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as cigarette. Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior. The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins. As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it? Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc. The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want. You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations can be almost as inefficient as governments. Jeff |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy tool. Wow! A real discussion with substance. Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many things. Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government and the services it provides. Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as cigarette. Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior. The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins. As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it? Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc. The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want. You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations can be almost as inefficient as governments. Jeff The idea of entitlements knows no limits. Therefore the inefficient use of tax money knows no practical limits other than the amount of money in the government coffers at any given time. Once citizens discovered they could vote themselves money out of the public weal entitlements were off and running to the point that someone who doesn't reach the work place in an air conditioned car wants the government to force the installation of a shower and locker on private property for their private use. The cost is not only the actual cost, but is also the cost of lost opportunity for a better and more efficient use of this money. How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff? |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
On Aug 2, 10:48 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote in s.com... Keats WHO? wrote: What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located in a business somewhere?... The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes, licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle? -- I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes. That bicycling remains an elitist hobby is the damned fault of a system that doesn't know how to put together democracy and bicycles. That we see so many SUVs out there, shows that we live in an elitist society, where those at the bottom are f...d. We need someone like... "As mayor of Bogota, Colombia, Enrique Penalosa accomplished remarkable changes of monumental proportions for the people of his country in just three years. Peñalosa changed the way Bogota treated its non-driving citizens by restricting automobile use and instituting a bus rapid transit system which now carries a 1/2 million residents daily. Among other improvements: he widened and rebuilt sidewalks, created grand public spaces, and implemented over one hundred miles of bicycle paths." 18 Comments (leave a comment) "Enrique Penalosa is GOD!" Comment by James L. - February 27, 2007 @ 11:54 pm | Link "OMG! Please clone Mr. Penalosa and send the copies everywhere!" Comment by pb - February 28, 2007 @ 3:08 pm | Link "Viva Senor Penalosa. He truly is a visionary, and one who has actually seen his dreams become reality!" Comment by Steve K. - March 1, 2007 @ 11:13 pm | Link "Bring Mr. Penalosa to Cleveland please! Seriously, how can you get a hold off him? Is there any way?" Comment by GaryE - March 2, 2007 @ 3:19 am | Link "Another great example of the power of possibility and creativity. Just because it had never been done before doesn't mean it couldn't be done!" Comment by Clarissa - March 2, 2007 @ 3:04 pm | Link http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/...penalosa-long/ |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote: Keats wrote: "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote in message . .. Keats WHO? wrote: What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located in a business somewhere?... The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes, licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle? -- I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes. The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy tool. The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike paths are concentrated where the big people live? |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
On Aug 3, 5:39 am, "Jeff Grippe" wrote:
The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy tool. Wow! A real discussion with substance. Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many things. Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government and the services it provides. Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as cigarette. Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior. The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. But most civilized countries consider wasting gas a sin, not a sign of patriotism. Maybe they believe that being dependent on foreign oil is a dangerous idea, thus they tax gas to pay for public transportation and bike facilities... Pretty stupid, aren't they? The revolution isn't coming, however. Sorry, I thought it was coming soon... http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/...ution%21& l4= Well, maybe before Armageddon anyway. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
"Keats" wrote in message . .. "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy tool. Wow! A real discussion with substance. Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many things. Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government and the services it provides. Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as cigarette. Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior. The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins. As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it? Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc. The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want. You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations can be almost as inefficient as governments. Jeff The idea of entitlements knows no limits. Therefore the inefficient use of tax money knows no practical limits other than the amount of money in the government coffers at any given time. Once citizens discovered they could vote themselves money out of the public weal entitlements were off and running to the point that someone who doesn't reach the work place in an air conditioned car wants the government to force the installation of a shower and locker on private property for their private use. The cost is not only the actual cost, but is also the cost of lost opportunity for a better and more efficient use of this money. How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff? Here's the problem with this discussion. We can talk fantasy or reality. Fantasy is always great because it bypasses reality. So here goes: Fantasy: Define what are basic human rights (food, shelter, etc) and what functions we think are best handled by the government (waging war, international affairs, etc.). Everything else is left to the free market. I love this idea but it is alas a fantasy. Reality: We are part of a system that is essentially political. The system attempts to provide what those in power have become convinced are basic human rights and affairs of govermment. The system also allows a free market unless those in power decide that certain markets should be entirely free. Laws can even be amended on a one time basis such as Disney getting a copyright extension a few years back. In addition to politics, the system also has institutions that are "entrenched" and have a life of their own. While this is still politics, the root run deep. If you can coax the political will for lockers and showers, and maintain it, then lockers and showers you shall have. Here in NYC there is a plan in place to have bike lanes that run through all five boroughs. In White Plains, where I live, they couldn't get the votes for bike lanes. The compromise was putting up signs that say "Bike Route". Some of these signs are in the absolute worst place to cycle. I was on the "Bike Route" when I got hit and sustained an injury which essentially ended my cycling. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
The Great Don Quijote of RBM!
On Aug 3, 7:49 am, "Keats" wrote:
How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff?- I don't know about those, but the right to ride a bike in safety should be a human right. Or we want the bicycle people to go out on the road and paint bike lanes, install bike racks at shops and showers at work? It would be funny... |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Great Don Quijote of RBM! | donquijote1954 | General | 256 | August 18th 07 08:20 AM |
The Great Don Quijote of RBM! | donquijote1954 | Techniques | 270 | August 18th 07 08:20 AM |
The Great Don Quijote of RBM! | donquijote1954 | Social Issues | 220 | August 17th 07 04:55 AM |
Don Quijote expounds ... | LotteBum[_60_] | Australia | 0 | August 1st 07 12:39 AM |
Chilly Hilly - Great ride and great weather | cheg | General | 5 | March 1st 04 07:02 PM |