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#11
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/2018 10:09, Peter Keller wrote:
On 28/04/18 11:38, Simon Jester wrote: On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 11:40:59 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote: On 27/04/18 05:31, Simon Jester wrote: On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote: On 26/04/18 02:43, Simon Jester wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DNNIB_PdaA Maybe there is a case for well-designed bike lanes which actually lead somewhere and connect to things but in practice this will happen very slowly. I am not sure how he rides bikes, but sure there are many inconsiderate bicyclists. Just like there are many inconsiderate [insert flavour of the month here]. In general I find roads and motorised traffic not much of a problem. But then I do crazy things like being visible and predictable, signalling intentions, stopping for red lights and pedestrians, giving way when required, riding with the traffic and not against it, and other such stupid things. Then drivers also do stupid things like give way to me, give me room, give me a cheery wave (no doubt like they are humouring a lunatic) and so forth. Not all cyclists are as confident as you and I. I have been a cycle commuter for 30 years and have no problem allowing motorists to share our roads but I would still rather have segregated cycle ways. Fair enough. I am just pointing out that it will not happen overnight. It's all about attitude. Why does this work in Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoG2HrYx8k But we are told it would be suicide for UK cyclists. Ahh yes that brings back memories ... In Germany something like 12 percent of urban travel is made by bicycle. In the UK I believe it is less than 2 percent. Safety in numbers? German respect for law and order? It certainly was very pleasant and practical using a bicycle in Germany. 12% sounds very high. It may be accurate for the Netherlands. But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that cyclists behave properly and obey the law. If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps cyclists would not be hated as much as they are. |
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#12
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/2018 13:36, RJH wrote:
In Sheffield we're having every inch of road dug up and resurfaced. To the best of my knowledge there won't be any change in provision for cyclists. Or EVs, or indeed road flow-deign for that matter. In a city that's gridlocked every rush hour. That's a great shame, because although I have rarely visited Sheffield (and the last time was more than twenty years ago), I would bet that there is much road space wasted by being marked out as cycle lanes and bus lanes (so-called, in either case). A full re-surface would appear to be an ideal low-marginal-cost opportinity to have undone all of that waste. Perhaps Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson should be called in as principal consultant to Sheffield - and a lot of other places. |
#13
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote:
But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that cyclists behave properly and obey the law. When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained no such impression. If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps cyclists would not be hated as much as they are. You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the situation as you believe it to be. |
#14
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/18 11:30, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 10:13:58 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote: On 28/04/18 00:38, Simon Jester wrote: Why does this work in Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoG2HrYx8k But we are told it would be suicide for UK cyclists. There is a culture in the rest of Europe and USA completely missing in Britain. To give way when turning. British authorities don't help to do anything to change this when they have been setting vehicle/pedestrian phases on traffic lights incorrectly and painting give way lines on residential roads in the wrong place for several decades. Also, in other places, if a collision between motor and cycle takes place in a cycle lane, the driver is bound to be at fault. Here the only point of a cycle lane is to allow a bureaucrat to go home with a warm fuzzy feeling after ticking a "sustainable transport" box. Watching that video again it is all about mutual respect rather than them and us. They were all road users, the mode of transport did not matter. Notice at 1:27 where the cyclist waves at the motorist to say go ahead even though we have priority. The wave was unnecessary but I don't think the manoeuvre itself is particularly unusual. I could probably have got moving quicker than the car and asserted position by merit (similar to a 2 to 1 lane merge) but in an "equal" situation I usually prefer drivers to get on with it and get out of the way rather than sit and dither. Using the road is always about giving a bit here, taking a bit there, being assertive, being meek, being predictable, being confusing, following the book but occasionally not: a skill is about knowing which to do. Some people get it, some seem unable to set a fair balance. Some, like Nugent, seem to want everybody to behave as though they're following a flow chart. We need to change social attitudes towards cycling in this country. Lycra Warriors and Mr Pounders not not help. It is true that there are a number of vociferous cycle haters (behind the anonymity of the internet) but I don't think the lack of take up is the same as a general social attitude problem with cycling. I also don't know what a "lycra warrior" is; I have never encountered anybody in lycra that meets such a description. My view remains that part of the problem is officialdom and the rules governing junction design. It's mainly about motor/pedestrian but it has knock on effects. |
#15
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The case for cycle lanes
On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 6:30:56 PM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:
When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained no such impression. Germans are like that everywhere. I was in Chisinau, Moldova and this fat German took command of the TV channels. Russians and Germans have MONEY and like to show it off amongst the plebs of Europe. Only in Poland are they muted, in relative terms. Even in Netherlands they are welcomed as they have MONEY. |
#16
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/2018 18:30, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote: But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that cyclists behave properly and obey the law. When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained no such impression. In which German Land is Garda? If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps cyclists would not be hated as much as they are. You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the situation as you believe it to be. How true. |
#17
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/2018 21:08, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 18:30, TMS320 wrote: On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote: But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that cyclists behave properly and obey the law. When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained no such impression. In which German Land is Garda? If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps cyclists would not be hated as much as they are. You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the situation as you believe it to be. How true. I read the other day that cyclist deaths in the NL now exceed the number of car occupant deaths. Over 200 of each. The rise is attributed to the use of e-bikes by older riders. |
#18
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The case for cycle lanes
On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 6:32:21 PM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/04/18 11:30, Simon Jester wrote: On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 10:13:58 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote: On 28/04/18 00:38, Simon Jester wrote: My view remains that part of the problem is officialdom and the rules governing junction design. It's mainly about motor/pedestrian but it has knock on effects. What is wrong with the junction design here? QUOTE: Maybe, how about, people started following the rules of the road and stopped selfishly blocking box junctions, which as the photo above shows, is very clearly marked (apart from where two cars are queuing on it!). https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news...rivers-1510618 |
#19
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The case for cycle lanes
On 28/04/18 21:08, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 18:30, TMS320 wrote: On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote: But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that cyclists behave properly and obey the law. When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained no such impression. In which German Land is Garda? Hmmm. German holiday makers are people that normally live in Germany. It is remarkable that you can't make the connection. If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps cyclists would not be hated as much as they are. You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the situation as you believe it to be. How true. You have this idyllic notion that, in law, people are innocent until proven guilty. You want to have it both ways. |
#20
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The case for cycle lanes
On 29/04/18 02:17, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:09, Peter Keller wrote: On 28/04/18 11:38, Simon Jester wrote: On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 11:40:59 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote: On 27/04/18 05:31, Simon Jester wrote: On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote: On 26/04/18 02:43, Simon Jester wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DNNIB_PdaA Maybe there is a case for well-designed bike lanes which actually lead somewhere and connect to things but in practice this will happen very slowly. I am not sure how he rides bikes, but sure there are many inconsiderate bicyclists. Just like there are many inconsiderate [insert flavour of the month here]. In general I find roads and motorised traffic not much of a problem. But then I do crazy things like being visible and predictable, signalling intentions, stopping for red lights and pedestrians, giving way when required, riding with the traffic and not against it, and other such stupid things. Then drivers also do stupid things like give way to me, give me room, give me a cheery wave (no doubt like they are humouring a lunatic) and so forth. Not all cyclists are as confident as you and I. I have been a cycle commuter for 30 years and have no problem allowing motorists to share our roads but I would still rather have segregated cycle ways. Fair enough. I am just pointing out that it will not happen overnight. It's all about attitude. Why does this work in Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoG2HrYx8k But we are told it would be suicide for UK cyclists. Ahh yes that brings back memories ... In Germany something like 12 percent of urban travel is made by bicycle. In the UK I believe it is less than 2 percent. Safety in numbers? German respect for law and order? It certainly was very pleasant and practical using a bicycle in Germany. 12% sounds very high. It may be accurate for the Netherlands. http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs...terneurope.pdf I was mistaken. Germany about 10 percent. Netherlands about 26 percent. UK about 2 percent. I lived in Münster (Westfalen) which is swamped by bicycles. They even had to build a big bicycle parking building near the railway station. |
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