Why so few stock Campagnolo bikes?

James Scott Wrote:
sfcommuter wrote:

Anyone in the bike industry know why 98% of all stock bikes are
Shimano?

I view Campagnolo as fairly similar in attitude to their automotive
compatriots at Ferrari. Ferrari isn't interested in putting a
cavallino
in every garage. They're interested in winning races and building road
cars that incorporate racing technology and have tremendous sex
appeal.
So what if they cost six figures and we only sell several hundred
every
year? They're "the best" and there's always a market for that. Campy
occupies that same niche in the bicycle world.

JLS
--
James "Easily distracted by shiny objects" Scott
www.jls.cx

But the difference in price for a Campagnolo vs. Shimano bike is
relatively small, so it's entirely possible to envision many more
Campagnolo bikes on the road. Ferraris are beyond the financial reach
of everybody but the richest of the rich, so I don't follow this
analogy.

It just seems like a missed opportunity for a big company to
distinguish itself from competitors and offer something different to
the general public. There really seems to be so little difference
between most road bikes these days. They all seemed to be spec'd the
same way with the same components. But maybe the average buyer doesn't
care.


--
sfcommuter

sfcommuter wrote:
James Scott Wrote:


I view Campagnolo as fairly similar in attitude to their automotive
compatriots at Ferrari.

But the difference in price for a Campagnolo vs. Shimano bike is
relatively small,

....if you compare Campy to the mid-to-high-end range of Shimano's road
groups only, yes. As other posters have demonstrated, Campy's prices in
the USA for retail to the bike owner tend to be 0-50% higher than the
comparable Shimano product. In some cases, Campy offers products which
do not have a direct Shimano competitor - superlight carbon cranks, Ergo
levers and seatposts come to mind. Similarly, Campy doesn't have comfort
or MTB products to offer. If I need to spec MTBs and comfort bikes in
addition to road racers in my product lines, I might want to go with a
single supplier where increasing the size of my order will give me
additional pricing leverage. And you said "bike" - it may be that while
the price of a Campy-equipped bike is 10% higher than its
Shimano-equipped competitor, the margin on the Campy bike is actually
lower due to the higher cost of components.

so it's entirely possible to envision many more
Campagnolo bikes on the road.

Sure we can envision it, but there are likely some very practical
reasons why this isn't the case. For bikes produced in the US, the
current $ - Euro exchange rate strongly discourages importation of
European components. For bikes produced in Asia, getting parts from
Italy to Taiwan is hard to justify when there are perfectly functional,
well-known, locally available alternatives. For Euro-produced and -sold
bikes, Campy has a stronger position, and I'd expect to see more
Campy-spec'ed production bikes there. AFAIK, Bianchi is the only
manufacturer who sells Campy-equipped production bikes in the USA, and
then only on their high-end racing bikes made in Italy.

Ferraris are beyond the financial reach
of everybody but the richest of the rich, so I don't follow this
analogy.

In this case I'd say it applies inasmuch as Campy clearly has a niche
strategy pursuing the high end of the component market for road bikes,
just as Ferrari does with cars. Shimano clearly has more of a
mass-market strategy. If you consider the low end of the new-bike market
to be a $50 Roadmaster Mt. Fury (long may its knobbies roar), and the
high end to be an $8,000 custom CF/Ti Record-equipped jobbie, that's
actually a much wider spread than the 20X price differential between a
$10,000 Hyundai and a $200,000 Ferrari.

It just seems like a missed opportunity for a big company to
distinguish itself from competitors and offer something different to
the general public.

Assuming that by "big company" you mean the bike manufacturer, we're
back to volume considerations and ability to deliver. If TREK orders
5,000 Record groups to spec out its 2006 Madone SSL2s, and Campy can't
deliver, TREK has just messed up its production schedule something
awful. The same holds true for Shimano, but the wider market adoption
means TREK probably has some alternative suppliers it could call. This
is not necessarily so for Campy. As an aside, this might be one reason
why TREK has Bontrager as a captive brand for components - more control
over supply. Lower cost is another reason for vertical integration.

If Campy continues to grow sales at a manageable rate by evolving its
road products, then it has little incentive to risk its image and
capital by making a big push into OEM markets. If it sees Shimano
falter, and can find the capital to expand its production without
compromising quality, then it might make sense to do so. If it really
wanted to get big into OEM supply, it would probably have to produce
some parts in Taiwan. I'm sure the smart boys and girls in Vicenza have
had some animated conversations about this. Given how loudly some
complain about Thai-made Vittoria tires (for instance), can you imagine
what we'd hear about Ergo levers with "Made in Taiwan" stamped on them?

JLS
--
James "And you thought 'I was misled' would never die" Scott
www.jls.cx

sfcommuter- It just seems like a missed opportunity for a big company to
distinguish itself from competitors and offer something different to
the general public. BRBR

shimano are experts at OEM, that is selling to bicycle makers that supply bike
shops with complete bikes. PLUS many(like Trek) are so in bed with the BIG
segment of the market, MTB, it is unlikely that they would look to Campagnolo
to supply the road bikes.

Plus shimano makes some 'sweetheart' deals for OEM road bikes, perhaps even
losing $ to get all the bicycles in the 'shop' shimano.

Campagnolo is the king of the market where the bicycle starts as a frameset at
the bike shop. They also sell all they make, every year.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

James- In this case I'd say it applies inasmuch as Campy clearly has a niche
strategy pursuing the high end of the component market for road bikes,
just as Ferrari does with cars. BRBR

I think Ferrari is a poor choice. Pick something that has a full range of high
end vehicles, maybe like Audi or Ducati or BMW. Ferrari are exotics, period.
Campagnolo makes Mirage and Veloce, very on par(but superior, IMO) to Sora and
Tiagra.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"James Scott" wrote in message
...
sfcommuter wrote:
James Scott Wrote:

AFAIK, Bianchi is the only
manufacturer who sells Campy-equipped production bikes in the USA,

Not true. Cannondale has campy on high-end road bikes. They use the
Cannondale cranks and bottom brackets but you can get other Campy
components.

RWM wrote:
"James Scott" wrote in message
...
sfcommuter wrote:
James Scott Wrote:

AFAIK, Bianchi is the only
manufacturer who sells Campy-equipped production bikes in the USA,

Not true. Cannondale has campy on high-end road bikes. They use the
Cannondale cranks and bottom brackets but you can get other Campy
components.

my lbs has campag equipped orbea right down to the veloce marmolada.
--
david reuteler

David Reuteler wrote:

RWM wrote:

James Scott Wrote:


AFAIK, Bianchi is the only
manufacturer who sells Campy-equipped production bikes in the USA,

Not true. Cannondale has campy on high-end road bikes. They use the
Cannondale cranks and bottom brackets but you can get other Campy
components.


my lbs has campag equipped orbea right down to the veloce marmolada.

Thanks for the corrections. Looking at cannondale.com, the six13 and
Team Replica come with Record. All other models are Shimano. A quick
look at orbea-usa.com shows that the bikes are split nearly evenly - you
can get Shimano or Campy through the entire product line. I'm assuming
that the bikes are all made in Spain, so they'd probably have an easier
time sourcing Campy than TREK or Giant.

Anybody know what kind of volume Orbea does?

JLS
--
James "Where's rec.bicycles.corporate-stats?" Scott
www.jls.cx

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

James- In this case I'd say it applies inasmuch as Campy clearly has a niche
strategy pursuing the high end of the component market for road bikes,
just as Ferrari does with cars. BRBR

I think Ferrari is a poor choice. Pick something that has a full range of high
end vehicles, maybe like Audi or Ducati or BMW. Ferrari are exotics, period.

Fair enough. Since you're forcing me to choose, I'll pick BMW, though
even they're moving downmarket faster than Xenon is (assuming the
2-series materializes). At any rate, they're certainly not like Ford,
and even if Ford couldn't produce enough Foci to meet demand, I doubt
BMW would try to fill the gap.

Campagnolo makes Mirage and Veloce, very on par(but superior, IMO) to Sora and
Tiagra.

Haven't used Sora or Tiagra but I just did a Mirage build and I'm
impressed with how well it shifts. I plan to do a full report on the
bike at some point but briefly it's a Shimagnolo build - Deore LX
freehub, SRAM 9sp cassette, Mirage rear der/brittori, XTR (950) top-pull
front der on Deore LX 48-36-26 crank...and it all shifts like it came
out of the same box.

JLS
--
James "Maybe it's the rollamajig" Scott
www.jls.cx

"James Scott" wrote in message
...
David Reuteler wrote:

RWM wrote:

James Scott Wrote:


AFAIK, Bianchi is the only
manufacturer who sells Campy-equipped production bikes in the USA,

Not true. Cannondale has campy on high-end road bikes. They use the
Cannondale cranks and bottom brackets but you can get other Campy
components.


my lbs has campag equipped orbea right down to the veloce marmolada.

Thanks for the corrections. Looking at cannondale.com, the six13 and
Team Replica come with Record. All other models are Shimano. A quick
look at orbea-usa.com shows that the bikes are split nearly evenly - you
can get Shimano or Campy through the entire product line. I'm assuming
that the bikes are all made in Spain, so they'd probably have an easier
time sourcing Campy than TREK or Giant.

Anybody know what kind of volume Orbea does?

JLS


Did you notice on the Cannon site that you can't get DA in Europe?

I think everyone has made some very valid points. I'm almost 40 & grew
up using shimano. I think anyone my age & younger has been baptized
into shimano. To the average guy off the street who wants his first
real bike shimano is the natural choice. They are familiar &
comfortable with it. Bike companies know that shimano appeals to the
masses, It's just marketing. If you want to sell a bike it better have
shimano. I have some 30 year old "shimano world" trade magazines that
expain this. Looks like It worked.
20 years ago shimano was a stepping stone to campagnolo.
Shimano was a cheep way to get into biking. Later you bought campy if
you are hooked into the sport. Today very few switch.