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ARBR has gone downhill



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 9th 03, 10:58 PM
Mr. Anonymous
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

Yup... The part that ****es me off the most is that there are maybe 10
people on this board that cause 90% of the ****. i.e. OT, flames,
whatever... And what makes it worse, they have driven many high quality,
high profile people off this NG. Almost like they relish the chance to feel
like a "big man" and flame Bryan Ball or Fast Freddy or Matt Weaver or
whomever and drive them off this group forever. I, for one, am ****ed that
there is not more respect in this NG. Can you imagine if everyone treated
each other with respect? What if we had Bryan, Freddy, Matt, maybe even Sam
Whittingham or Damjan Zabovnik participating in this NG? What kind of info
might be gleaned from their minds and experiences? They participate in other
online groups, why aren't they here? Because we have a handfull of
self-rightous assholes who delight in ****ing people off for fun. How cool
would it be to have manufacturers polling this NG for news and ideas? I've
tried several times, to get usefull info and public opinion on upcoming
projects; Such as Calfee's Stilletto, and my EZ-Rider and EZ-Tadpole
designs. Out of 20 responces I'll get maybe 1 or 2 that have any serious and
usefull content. It's a shame really, lots of folks here have been given a
chance to take small part in the creation of a new bicycle and all they can
do is flame away and bet on when and if such a project will be finished. So
freakin' sad, what are you doing on this NG if this is not what you came
here for? So to all you OT posters, flamers, trolls, etc... get a life, give
some respect, maybe this NG could be cool if we treated each other, like,
well, you were standing next to the person you are responding to. Now I'm
being an OT Flamer too! See what happens!


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  #22  
Old December 9th 03, 11:01 PM
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

Cletus D. Lee wrote:

: About a year ago (Date: 2002-12-02 12:19:15 PST), I made an early New
: Years Resolution to not participate in OT inflammatory posts.

: http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&l...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
: &selm=MPG.18557c2e31e13217989701%40News.CIS.DFN .DE

: For the most part, I have kept that promise. At the time I made my
: resolution, I invited others to join me. IIRC, I got few takers. By

I'm glad that I had the good sense not to join at the time. I
don't like to make vacuous promises :-)

: tolerating others irreverent, obscene and bigoted comments, has brought
: this NG full circle. Good posters are leaving and what we have left
: floating at the top of the cream pitcher are a few turds.

People whine and whine. But nobody comments on the true question!
Should we go moderated or not?

: Maybe people like Al and Bryan will drift back, maybe not. Perhaps
: others just as valued will come on board and replace these. I hope both
: happen. Without quality, this group will atrophy. If you let it be
: dominated by a few foul mouthed jerks, ARBR will certainly lose its
: mission. Only by speaking out against the foul-mouthed jerks will they
: get the message. Feeding their vitriol will only continue the downward
: spiral into the sewage pits. It is your choice, you can speak up or you
: can leave. If you leave, 'they' win.

Does it help? They will interpret it as a personal attack and
"defend" themselves. There is also the old saying "do not feed the
trolls".

About off-topic posts: Sometimes they are a nice read. But this NG
is about recumbents and stuff that is somehow related to them, and
people should never forget that!

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/

  #23  
Old December 9th 03, 11:12 PM
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

Edward Dolan wrote:

: Buy the way, I always respond to a post in the same manner in which it
: is sent. If it is polite, then I am polite; if it is not polite, then
: I am not polite.

That's a very good recipe for getting flamewars. Also, I see you
responding with personal attacks to posts that don't contain them.
Is this an application of your principle?

: Liberals are known far and wide for being nasty and
: vicious. Look in on any of the TV talk shows and you will see what I
: mean. Only Colmes is good for being a liberal. The others are beyond
: the pale.

That's a good example on people being judged by how they say
things. People randomly tune to a channel and listen to somebody
speak - they will make judgements about this person, never
considering how much reason the person had behind saying something
and behind how he said it. Keep that in mind every time you post,
because every post from you reflects your personal values and
people will make judgements from them.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/

  #24  
Old December 9th 03, 11:44 PM
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

Wow. At least that was a rather original and perceptive comment :-)

Hellbent Rick wrote:
: It's rather ironic that the off topic subjects are the ones with the longest
: threads. Makes you wonder if the subject of recumbents is boring. Perhaps
: it's the same old stupid crap regurgitated year after year. How many times
: do we have to read about numb feet? Or how about Pedaling techniques or
: "What type of outfit should I wear with my stupid looking bent?" Or how
: about the age old question that every Rabid Dork ponders at, "Wouldn't I
: look cool with a propeller mounted on my stupid helmet?"

These people should learn to use the Google groups search. Would
we need a FAQ for the NG? Then we could just go "RTFM!!!" whenever
a newbie posts here.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/

  #25  
Old December 10th 03, 12:18 AM
harv
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

EZ-Tadpole
designs.
"snip

Gabe??


  #26  
Old December 10th 03, 12:31 AM
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

Edward Dolan wrote:

: Thanks for being even handed at least. You are one of the few. I have
: escalated my rhetoric in response to personal attacks on me from my
: liberal adversaries. Politics is not for children. It is serious
: business and I am dead serious.

This newsgroup is not for politics. Somebody occasionally posting
their political agenda, liberal or not, in a thread with a clear
tendency and maybe even having some relation to benting, might be
tolerated. Constant political or personal campaigning that seeks
to take over every thread one participates in is a different matter.

Consider the case of Mr V. Somebody who values untainted wilderness
might find his ideas interesting. But he is generally considered a
nuisance, and people don't really pay attention to his message. They
just tell him to go away or refute him in abusive turns of speech. (The
best tactic would be to ignore, of course, he wouldn't really listen
either.) Do you think Mr. V is ok? His cause doesn't even matter, it's
just simply wrong what he is doing.

: Don't ever go to a newsgroup for friendship! Even when you think you
: have found it, it is an illusion. This is cyberspace and it is for the
: exchange of words only. There is reality and then there is the
: Internet. Don't ever confuse the two.

Not sound advice, IMHO. Bent riders can be friends online, and
more so IRL. I have found bent riders to be a very nice
international community, like a big family. People will help
others in need and stick together for mutual gain.

If you insult somebody online, you run a double risk because they
might remember that when they meet you IRL.

: Al, no one can stay on a newsgroup forever. We all of us wear out our
: welcomes, some sooner than others. I think 2 years is about right.
: Then it is time to move on to something else.

It should not be so. In reality, people can at least come back
after a few years. I've done that occasionally.

People who are civil, contribute useful stuff or just are inactive
rarely wear out their welcome.

IMO news is the most useful and convenient means for a forum
about a given subject. I could go elsewhere for a subject, but it
would be not the same, even though it might have some slight
advantages over news.

: always just be a small number and easily ignored by those who want to
: ignore them. 90% of the threads will be recumbent related topics as
: always. And that will more than satisfy most folks.

I hope so. I'm afraid of trolls with a persistence to go on for years.
Like Mr. V for example - look what he's done for the off-road group. I
recall very few on-topic threads there, the people who post spend their
energy fighting him. Fortunately this kind of trolls seem to be a very
rare individual.

Somebody with a vicious tongue and a soiled mind will send some
bad ripples through the community, though. I think the general
spirit and athmosphere of one's little chatroom has something to
it, and it should be cultivated.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/

  #27  
Old December 10th 03, 02:43 AM
Edward Dolan
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

"EVSolutions" wrote in message ...

Gee I take a holiday from this News Group and when I return you are talking
about it self destructing.

Have been living on Yahoo in some "Moderated: Groups and observed that when
someone goes OT, they get one warning and they do it again and are banned
for life.

They even address the issue via all the standing members take an on-line
vote and 51% and your ass is toast for life.

I would have thought that everytime someone is fragged by the group,
membership would fall, but the opposite happened.

IF this group was Moderated the same way...there would be like 6 active
members and Lorenzo L. Love would be one of the 6...then self destruction
would look really good....


LOL! You have sure got that right Joshua! Lorenzo stays on topic no
matter what, even to the point of driving all the rest of us to total
distraction. I must admit I do ramble a lot and then others pick up on
my rambling, and so we are off to the the races yet once again. But I
can't stop from rambling as one fertile thought leads to another - and
I do not feel I have the right to deprive this newsgroup of my
musings. But I am always amazed at what others are going to respond to
in my posts. I wonder, is it that way with you too?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
  #29  
Old December 10th 03, 04:40 AM
Gabriel DeVault
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Default ARBR has gone downhill

Yeah, um oops, I used a friends 'puter to post that and forgot to change the
name and e-mail, doh!


 




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