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Jay



 
 
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  #11  
Old Yesterday, 05:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,695
Default Jay

On 9/15/2019 12:44 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:30:27 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:22:57 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Much Snipped

transcontinental railroad use a great many Chinese laborers, etc.

So the Spanish speakers are just the current crop of tired huddled
masses looking for a job.

Some are, many are not. Spanish was the European language of California
before it's conquest by the USA, and many of the people still living
there are descendants of those who lived under Spanish or Mexican rule.

I worked with a guy who claimed his ancestors immigrated to California
before there was a United States.


I knew quite a few guys who claimed ancestors who immigrated to New
Mexico before there was a United States. At least a few of them were
probably right.

But I was referring to the Spanish speaking immigrants that Tom was
complaining about. (Poor, not many skills, can't speak English
well.... sort of like 90% of the rest of the population when they
arrived :-)


In my experience Spanish speakers in a lot of the US are more likely not
to learn English than immigrant speakers of almost any other language.
I think this is because there is more support for them, a much larger
number of people that they can deal with in their own language. Part of
the reason is that a big part of the US used to have Spanish as the
language of government and the ruling class.

There was a while that California had Spanish language schools,
apparently for immigrants. Apparently they stopped and I read a news
blurb, at the time, saying that the School People had discovered that
none that went to these schools could speak English :-)

Unlike Tom, I don't think this is such a terrible thing.

--

Cheers,

John B.


German was required in Milwaukee (and other Wisconsin)
schools until 1914.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #12  
Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,695
Default Jay

On 9/15/2019 10:05 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 9/14/2019 8:30 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
:
: In my experience Spanish speakers in a lot of the US are more likely not
: to learn English than immigrant speakers of almost any other language.
: I think this is because there is more support for them, a much larger
: number of people that they can deal with in their own language. Part of
: the reason is that a big part of the US used to have Spanish as the
: language of government and the ruling class.
:
: Unlike Tom, I don't think this is such a terrible thing.

:I've noted that everything item our big hardware stores is labeled in
:both English and Spanish. I know that when my grandparents came to
:America, nothing was labeled in English and Polish. Those grandparents

I'll bet you they were.

A hardware store near me closed, after 120 years. One of the things
they sold off were original hardware bins and drawers, which they'd
put in the basement in the 20s. They were all labeled in German.
Only German, not bilingual. The owners were German, the neighborhood
was German, and I'm sure they talked German to them.

Non English language newspapers were a feature of every modestly sized
city in the now rust belt.


+1


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #13  
Old Yesterday, 06:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 757
Default Jay

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 17:22:57 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Much Snipped

transcontinental railroad use a great many Chinese laborers, etc.

So the Spanish speakers are just the current crop of tired huddled
masses looking for a job.

Some are, many are not. Spanish was the European language of California
before it's conquest by the USA, and many of the people still living
there are descendants of those who lived under Spanish or Mexican rule.


I worked with a guy who claimed his ancestors immigrated to California
before there was a United States.


I knew quite a few guys who claimed ancestors who immigrated to New
Mexico before there was a United States. At least a few of them were
probably right.

But I was referring to the Spanish speaking immigrants that Tom was
complaining about. (Poor, not many skills, can't speak English
well.... sort of like 90% of the rest of the population when they
arrived :-)


In my experience Spanish speakers in a lot of the US are more likely not
to learn English than immigrant speakers of almost any other language.
I think this is because there is more support for them, a much larger
number of people that they can deal with in their own language. Part of
the reason is that a big part of the US used to have Spanish as the
language of government and the ruling class.

Unlike Tom, I don't think this is such a terrible thing.


Then you haven't come from a family that only speaks English poorly. Spreckles Sugar in the 19th Century in Salinas California was a center for Croatians. They all only learned sufficient English to gain American citizenship but NONE of their children would utter a world of Croatian beyond "Hello". The parents would speak in Croatian and the children would only reply back again in English. All of the races were similar in that except for the Mexicans/Spanish.

You cannot expect to get any good job without perfect use of English and destroying your children's future by not having them learn perfect English is a terrible thing if you haven't been direct witness to it.

What's more, ANY illegals are a terrible thing. We cannot provide proper assistance to the American citizens and yet we are giving illegals things like automobiles here in California. If you do not find THAT a terrible thing I have to wonder what in the hell you would think a terrible thing.
  #14  
Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 757
Default Jay

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/14/2019 8:30 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

In my experience Spanish speakers in a lot of the US are more likely not
to learn English than immigrant speakers of almost any other language.
I think this is because there is more support for them, a much larger
number of people that they can deal with in their own language. Part of
the reason is that a big part of the US used to have Spanish as the
language of government and the ruling class.

Unlike Tom, I don't think this is such a terrible thing.


I've noted that everything item our big hardware stores is labeled in
both English and Spanish. I know that when my grandparents came to
America, nothing was labeled in English and Polish. Those grandparents
probably learned English pretty quickly. Their kids (my parents) were
thoroughly American.

But I can understand the desire to retain many elements of one's home
culture. As with so many things, some balance is necessary.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Culture is not reflected with English. You can find a higher percentage of Hungarians in Hungary that speak English well than the illegal population of Hispanics in the USA.
 




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