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Is Shimano chain quality dropping?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 11th 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

I got a KMC 8.93 chain today for the bike with a 6 sprocket cluster. There's also a KMC Z-51 chain but it got terrible reviews. I also noticed that a lot of reviews for Shimano chains weren't all that great either. This leads me to wonder if the quality of Shimano chains in general is dropping. Is it?

If Shimano chain quality is dropping then who is making better quality chains?

Cheers
  #2  
Old August 11th 19, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I got a KMC 8.93 chain today for the bike with a 6 sprocket cluster.

There's also a KMC Z-51 chain but it got terrible reviews. I also
noticed that a lot of reviews for Shimano chains weren't all that
great either. This leads me to wonder if the quality of Shimano chains
in general is dropping. Is it?

If Shimano chain quality is dropping then who is making better quality chains?

Cheers


https://bikesreviewed.com/gear/best-bike-chains/
--
cheers,

John B.

  #3  
Old August 11th 19, 02:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On 8/10/2019 7:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I got a KMC 8.93 chain today for the bike with a 6 sprocket cluster.

There's also a KMC Z-51 chain but it got terrible reviews. I also
noticed that a lot of reviews for Shimano chains weren't all that
great either. This leads me to wonder if the quality of Shimano chains
in general is dropping. Is it?

If Shimano chain quality is dropping then who is making better quality chains?

Cheers


https://bikesreviewed.com/gear/best-bike-chains/
--
cheers,

John B.


Well, those are data points in some group's opinions.

To OP's quest for a _six speed_ drive chain my current
recommendation is the Wippermann 7.08 nickel plated chain.
Those are new here so I can't speak to longevity but they
are fat (a feature for 5/6 freewheels) and include a Connex
snaplink. Nothing wrong with KMC Z33 for six speed BTW. As
chain gets skinnier, classic 5/6 shifting suffers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #4  
Old August 11th 19, 02:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:17:18 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2019 7:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I got a KMC 8.93 chain today for the bike with a 6 sprocket cluster.

There's also a KMC Z-51 chain but it got terrible reviews. I also
noticed that a lot of reviews for Shimano chains weren't all that
great either. This leads me to wonder if the quality of Shimano chains
in general is dropping. Is it?

If Shimano chain quality is dropping then who is making better quality chains?

Cheers


https://bikesreviewed.com/gear/best-bike-chains/
--
cheers,

John B.


Well, those are data points in some group's opinions.

To OP's quest for a _six speed_ drive chain my current
recommendation is the Wippermann 7.08 nickel plated chain.
Those are new here so I can't speak to longevity but they
are fat (a feature for 5/6 freewheels) and include a Connex
snaplink. Nothing wrong with KMC Z33 for six speed BTW. As
chain gets skinnier, classic 5/6 shifting suffers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I looked at the site John B gave the link to but none of the KMC chains available near me are shown there. I haven't seen a Wipperman chain in ages in any bicycle shops around here. The KMC 8.93 chain I got today has great reviews even for its use as a 6-speed chain. I just got back from a test ride with it on the bike and it shifts great.

Cheers
  #5  
Old August 11th 19, 04:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:24:58 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:17:18 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2019 7:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I got a KMC 8.93 chain today for the bike with a 6 sprocket cluster.
There's also a KMC Z-51 chain but it got terrible reviews. I also
noticed that a lot of reviews for Shimano chains weren't all that
great either. This leads me to wonder if the quality of Shimano chains
in general is dropping. Is it?

If Shimano chain quality is dropping then who is making better quality chains?

Cheers

https://bikesreviewed.com/gear/best-bike-chains/
--
cheers,

John B.


Well, those are data points in some group's opinions.

To OP's quest for a _six speed_ drive chain my current
recommendation is the Wippermann 7.08 nickel plated chain.
Those are new here so I can't speak to longevity but they
are fat (a feature for 5/6 freewheels) and include a Connex
snaplink. Nothing wrong with KMC Z33 for six speed BTW. As
chain gets skinnier, classic 5/6 shifting suffers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I looked at the site John B gave the link to but none of the KMC chains available near me are shown there. I haven't seen a Wipperman chain in ages in any bicycle shops around here. The KMC 8.93 chain I got today has great reviews even for its use as a 6-speed chain. I just got back from a test ride with it on the bike and it shifts great.

Cheers


I didn't mention it before but I wonder whether if one measures only
wear whether a "modern" 10-11 speed chain can match an older, say 7
speed, chain?

--
cheers,

John B.

  #6  
Old August 11th 19, 03:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On 8/10/2019 6:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

To OP's quest for a _six speed_ drive chain my current recommendation is
the Wippermann 7.08 nickel plated chain. Those are new here so I can't
speak to longevity but they are fat (a feature for 5/6 freewheels) and
include a Connex snaplink. Nothing wrong with KMC Z33 for six speed BTW.
As chain gets skinnier, classic 5/6 shifting suffers.


Agreed, the KMC Z33 is fine for 5 and 6 speed freewheels, and the 8 and
9 (and 10 and 11) should be avoided. No upside in spending more for
poorer shifting.

The issue is that finding the older chains in a shop is often not easy
since 5 and 6 speed freewheels haven't been used in a long time. So
often they'll sell naive customers a 7 or 8 speed narrower chain and
assure them that it'll work fine.

  #7  
Old August 11th 19, 06:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 7:00:36 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 8/10/2019 6:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

To OP's quest for a _six speed_ drive chain my current recommendation is
the Wippermann 7.08 nickel plated chain. Those are new here so I can't
speak to longevity but they are fat (a feature for 5/6 freewheels) and
include a Connex snaplink. Nothing wrong with KMC Z33 for six speed BTW.
As chain gets skinnier, classic 5/6 shifting suffers.


Agreed, the KMC Z33 is fine for 5 and 6 speed freewheels, and the 8 and
9 (and 10 and 11) should be avoided. No upside in spending more for
poorer shifting.

The issue is that finding the older chains in a shop is often not easy
since 5 and 6 speed freewheels haven't been used in a long time. So
often they'll sell naive customers a 7 or 8 speed narrower chain and
assure them that it'll work fine.


5, 6, 7 and 8 speed freewheels are readily available since most of the world is still using them. You can even get 9 speed freewheels.
  #8  
Old August 11th 19, 07:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On 8/11/2019 12:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 7:00:36 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 8/10/2019 6:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

To OP's quest for a _six speed_ drive chain my current recommendation is
the Wippermann 7.08 nickel plated chain. Those are new here so I can't
speak to longevity but they are fat (a feature for 5/6 freewheels) and
include a Connex snaplink. Nothing wrong with KMC Z33 for six speed BTW.
As chain gets skinnier, classic 5/6 shifting suffers.


Agreed, the KMC Z33 is fine for 5 and 6 speed freewheels, and the 8 and
9 (and 10 and 11) should be avoided. No upside in spending more for
poorer shifting.

The issue is that finding the older chains in a shop is often not easy
since 5 and 6 speed freewheels haven't been used in a long time. So
often they'll sell naive customers a 7 or 8 speed narrower chain and
assure them that it'll work fine.


5, 6, 7 and 8 speed freewheels are readily available since most of the world is still using them. You can even get 9 speed freewheels.


Two weeks ago I would have agreed with you:

https://www.amazon.com/Ventura-Speed.../dp/B00ZHYFMXY

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #9  
Old August 12th 19, 03:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

Tom Kunich wrote:

5, 6, 7 and 8 speed freewheels are readily available since most of the
world is still using them. You can even get 9 speed freewheels.


You can get nice 10-speed freewheels from SunRace, too. They're intended for e-bikes with rear hub motors, because those are some of the only bikes that can benefit from them.

The problem with 8/9/10 speed freewheels is the same as it's always been-- when you overhang an axle that far, you bend and then break it. It's enough of a problem with 7sp freewheels that it's why cassette freehubs were developed.

Freewheels that wide are best reserved for e-bike hub motors or other hubs that have thick sturdy axles. There's no technical reason big-axle freewheel hubs couldn't be the default, but they're not. I have made a few of them out of big-axle BMX hubs (and from scratch), but that's a project for a machinist.

If you want to take a crack at it, you can fit a 3/4" or 19mm diameter round axle inside a standard Shimano pattern freewheel remover tool.
  #10  
Old August 14th 19, 07:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 4
Default Is Shimano chain quality dropping?

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 7:00:36 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
The issue is that finding the older chains in a shop is often not easy
since 5 and 6 speed freewheels haven't been used in a long time. So
often they'll sell naive customers a 7 or 8 speed narrower chain and
assure them that it'll work fine.


It's not just the shops that take this attitude. AFAIK, Shimano's only current chain for 6 and 7 speed, are 8-speed chains (CN-HG40, CN-HG71) that are labelled as being for 6/7/8 speeds.

I suppose that being Hyperglide chains, Shimano only intends for them to be used with 6/7/8 speed Hyperglide sprockets. I guess Hyperglide's ramps take over the role of protruding pins snagging adjacent sprockets when shifting.
 




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