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Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 22nd 17, 06:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

I needed to make a quick tire change this morning (flat, worn out front tire), and I went to throw a wire-bead Gatorskin on a CR18 rim. Goddamn, is this a 650B tire? It wasn't even close. Nonetheless, I did not wrestle with it for an hour or even five minutes. I slapped on an old folding Bontrager sale-table tire and got to work. I'll investigate further tonight. CR18s have shallow rim wells like MA2s, but I've had a Gatorskin on that rim in the past. I wonder if there are manufacturing tolerance problems.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #2  
Old March 22nd 17, 08:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,424
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 10:57:14 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
I needed to make a quick tire change this morning (flat, worn out front tire), and I went to throw a wire-bead Gatorskin on a CR18 rim. Goddamn, is this a 650B tire? It wasn't even close. Nonetheless, I did not wrestle with it for an hour or even five minutes. I slapped on an old folding Bontrager sale-table tire and got to work. I'll investigate further tonight. CR18s have shallow rim wells like MA2s, but I've had a Gatorskin on that rim in the past. I wonder if there are manufacturing tolerance problems.

-- Jay Beattie.


I remember 10-15 yrs ago there was a string of really good prices on conti 3000s at Performance. I stocked up and they were lumpier than ****. It was like the wheel needed to be balanced after they were mounted.

  #3  
Old March 22nd 17, 10:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 275
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the rim, counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire? Did you try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far as possible toward the side you were trying to mount, in order to create more clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you look all around the perimeter of the tire, trying to find places where the tube was caught under the bead? A little silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but I've always been able to mount them by using these techniques. I'd much rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.
  #4  
Old March 23rd 17, 03:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:20:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the rim, counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire? Did you try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far as possible toward the side you were trying to mount, in order to create more clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you look all around the perimeter of the tire, trying to find places where the tube was caught under the bead? A little silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but I've always been able to mount them by using these techniques. I'd much rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.


I did the basics and didn't spend much time trying. It was so far off that I just grabbed another tire and got going. I'll try again later.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #5  
Old March 23rd 17, 04:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:20:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the rim, counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire? Did you try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far as possible toward the side you were trying to mount, in order to create more clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you look all around the perimeter of the tire, trying to find places where the tube was caught under the bead? A little silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but I've always been able to mount them by using these techniques. I'd much rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.


The trouble with using "all the basics" is that when you're in a hurry it's ALL to common to pinch the tube.
  #6  
Old March 25th 17, 04:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On 2017-03-22 19:50, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:20:34 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the rim,
counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire? Did you
try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far as possible
toward the side you were trying to mount, in order to create more
clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you look all around
the perimeter of the tire, trying to find places where the tube was
caught under the bead? A little silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but I've
always been able to mount them by using these techniques. I'd much
rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.


I did the basics and didn't spend much time trying. It was so far
off that I just grabbed another tire and got going. I'll try again
later.


Eventually you'll get it on. Push the 2nd bead as far you can, secure it
in that "95% position" with two tire levers, then leave overnight. The
stress seems to stretch it a wee bit. In the morning it'll "only" be
15-20 minutes more. What also helps if you must get it on same day is to
squeeze high-quality tire levers between bead and rim wall right up to
where it crosses over. Then rotate these levers back and forth 10-20
degrees while pushing. Dunk the lever tips in soap before. The levers
will suffer a lot and I broke one from an expensive set.

The feeling in my right thumb and middle finger tips still hasn't come
back after the last one a couple months ago but who knows, those could
also be carpal tunnel symptoms. It just happened right after mounting my
last Gatorksin. And that will be my last Gatorskin. Sad because they
gave me 2500mi per rear tire. Unless the side wall failed beforehand.

I switched to CST Conquistare. Still under 400mi so I can't say how many
miles they will last. The side walls sure are a lot better than on the
Gatorskin. I have done my usual rides which include rough gravel and
some offroad sections, zero visible damage. By that time Gatorskins
already had li'l flaps, skin tags, frayed fibers and so on.

If the CST lasts only 1500-2000mi it'll be ok as long as the price is
low enough for such a short life. I got it for $15. Main thing is, I can
get it onto the rim in minutes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #7  
Old March 25th 17, 07:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 11:30:36 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-22 19:50, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:20:34 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the rim,
counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire? Did you
try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far as possible
toward the side you were trying to mount, in order to create more
clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you look all around
the perimeter of the tire, trying to find places where the tube was
caught under the bead? A little silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but I've
always been able to mount them by using these techniques. I'd much
rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.


I did the basics and didn't spend much time trying. It was so far
off that I just grabbed another tire and got going. I'll try again
later.


Eventually you'll get it on. Push the 2nd bead as far you can, secure it
in that "95% position" with two tire levers, then leave overnight. The
stress seems to stretch it a wee bit. In the morning it'll "only" be
15-20 minutes more. What also helps if you must get it on same day is to
squeeze high-quality tire levers between bead and rim wall right up to
where it crosses over. Then rotate these levers back and forth 10-20
degrees while pushing. Dunk the lever tips in soap before. The levers
will suffer a lot and I broke one from an expensive set.

The feeling in my right thumb and middle finger tips still hasn't come
back after the last one a couple months ago but who knows, those could
also be carpal tunnel symptoms. It just happened right after mounting my
last Gatorksin. And that will be my last Gatorskin. Sad because they
gave me 2500mi per rear tire. Unless the side wall failed beforehand.

I switched to CST Conquistare. Still under 400mi so I can't say how many
miles they will last. The side walls sure are a lot better than on the
Gatorskin. I have done my usual rides which include rough gravel and
some offroad sections, zero visible damage. By that time Gatorskins
already had li'l flaps, skin tags, frayed fibers and so on.

If the CST lasts only 1500-2000mi it'll be ok as long as the price is
low enough for such a short life. I got it for $15. Main thing is, I can
get it onto the rim in minutes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I refuse to use a tire that's that hard to mount. What do you do if you get a flat out on the road? Do you camp overnight so that the tire can stretch again after repairing or replacing the tube?

Cheers
  #8  
Old March 25th 17, 07:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On 2017-03-25 11:25, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 11:30:36 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-22 19:50, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:20:34 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the
rim, counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire?
Did you try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far
as possible toward the side you were trying to mount, in order
to create more clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you
look all around the perimeter of the tire, trying to find
places where the tube was caught under the bead? A little
silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but
I've always been able to mount them by using these techniques.
I'd much rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.

I did the basics and didn't spend much time trying. It was so
far off that I just grabbed another tire and got going. I'll try
again later.


Eventually you'll get it on. Push the 2nd bead as far you can,
secure it in that "95% position" with two tire levers, then leave
overnight. The stress seems to stretch it a wee bit. In the morning
it'll "only" be 15-20 minutes more. What also helps if you must get
it on same day is to squeeze high-quality tire levers between bead
and rim wall right up to where it crosses over. Then rotate these
levers back and forth 10-20 degrees while pushing. Dunk the lever
tips in soap before. The levers will suffer a lot and I broke one
from an expensive set.

The feeling in my right thumb and middle finger tips still hasn't
come back after the last one a couple months ago but who knows,
those could also be carpal tunnel symptoms. It just happened right
after mounting my last Gatorksin. And that will be my last
Gatorskin. Sad because they gave me 2500mi per rear tire. Unless
the side wall failed beforehand.

I switched to CST Conquistare. Still under 400mi so I can't say how
many miles they will last. The side walls sure are a lot better
than on the Gatorskin. I have done my usual rides which include
rough gravel and some offroad sections, zero visible damage. By
that time Gatorskins already had li'l flaps, skin tags, frayed
fibers and so on.

If the CST lasts only 1500-2000mi it'll be ok as long as the price
is low enough for such a short life. I got it for $15. Main thing
is, I can get it onto the rim in minutes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I refuse to use a tire that's that hard to mount.



Well, that's was I am doing now :-)

I had a stack of them that needed to be used up. Now I switched brands.


... What do you do if
you get a flat out on the road? ...



I don't. I use tubes with 0.120" wall thickness plus lined tires. The
only flats I got were side wall blow-outs and there ain't much you can
do when there is a big gaping hole. Other than walking.

Sometimes walking can be fun. On Sunday I stepped on it a bit hard and
.... POCK ... spoke went. Because I had to re-dish the wheel this one
could not be tensioned out via other spokes so I hoofed it home. No wind
noise, lots of time to look at farm animals, maybe pet some of them,
bird chirping that I never hear on the bike, nice wild flowers to look
at that I usually blow by at high speed. And I got to watch a hawk do
aerobatics. Then I found an aimlessly wandering dog and brought it home.
Without the broken spoke she might have gotten lost. Some day when I am
fully retired I want to hike the whole singletrack to Placerville
instead of using the MTB. It would be an all day affair.


... Do you camp overnight so that the
tire can stretch again after repairing or replacing the tube?


Not a bad idea. Provided there is sufficient beer in the panniers or a
brewpub within a reasonable walk.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #9  
Old March 25th 17, 10:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 11:25:56 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 11:30:36 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-22 19:50, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:20:34 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
Did you try all the usual tricks for getting the bead over the rim,
counsel? Did you push the valve stem up into the tire? Did you
try pushing the bead on the opposite side over as far as possible
toward the side you were trying to mount, in order to create more
clearance to get the bead over the rim? Did you look all around
the perimeter of the tire, trying to find places where the tube was
caught under the bead? A little silicone spray on the bead, maybe?

Occasionally I've bought tires that were extremely tight, but I've
always been able to mount them by using these techniques. I'd much
rather have a tight tire than one that is too loose.

Good luck from your fellow pettifogger.

I did the basics and didn't spend much time trying. It was so far
off that I just grabbed another tire and got going. I'll try again
later.


Eventually you'll get it on. Push the 2nd bead as far you can, secure it
in that "95% position" with two tire levers, then leave overnight. The
stress seems to stretch it a wee bit. In the morning it'll "only" be
15-20 minutes more. What also helps if you must get it on same day is to
squeeze high-quality tire levers between bead and rim wall right up to
where it crosses over. Then rotate these levers back and forth 10-20
degrees while pushing. Dunk the lever tips in soap before. The levers
will suffer a lot and I broke one from an expensive set.

The feeling in my right thumb and middle finger tips still hasn't come
back after the last one a couple months ago but who knows, those could
also be carpal tunnel symptoms. It just happened right after mounting my
last Gatorksin. And that will be my last Gatorskin. Sad because they
gave me 2500mi per rear tire. Unless the side wall failed beforehand.

I switched to CST Conquistare. Still under 400mi so I can't say how many
miles they will last. The side walls sure are a lot better than on the
Gatorskin. I have done my usual rides which include rough gravel and
some offroad sections, zero visible damage. By that time Gatorskins
already had li'l flaps, skin tags, frayed fibers and so on.

If the CST lasts only 1500-2000mi it'll be ok as long as the price is
low enough for such a short life. I got it for $15. Main thing is, I can
get it onto the rim in minutes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I refuse to use a tire that's that hard to mount. What do you do if you get a flat out on the road? Do you camp overnight so that the tire can stretch again after repairing or replacing the tube?

Cheers


Exactly. I'll just use the tire as a rear, which is built on a Velocity Touring Disc rim -- a simple, discontinued rim with a deeper well that works with any and all tires. The CR18 is an el-cheapo rim I bought as a quick replacement for my front dyno wheel. It's an '80s design throw-back.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #10  
Old March 26th 17, 12:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Gregory Sutter
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Posts: 166
Default Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On 2017-03-25, Joerg wrote:

Some day when I am fully retired I want to hike the whole
singletrack to Placerville instead of using the MTB. It would be an
all day affair.


Do it on a weekend, or take a vacation day! No need to wait for
the indefinite future.

--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless

http://zer0.org/~gsutter/
 




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