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Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 15th 05, 04:54 AM
Tom Keats
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

In article ,
Mike Latondresse writes:
"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" wrote in
news:9PCBe.1955701$Xk.1705409@pd7tw3no:


"gwhite" wrote in message
...
Good thing he was wearing a helmet.


I don't know why he pulled out, I've landed on my head more
times than I can remember, and it's never kept me from climbing
back on the bike.

Mostly without a helmet obviously.


Hey, as long as he remembers in which direction to go.


cheers,
Tom

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  #22  
Old July 15th 05, 05:00 AM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 03:17:49 GMT, "Callistus Valerius"
wrote:

stunk. They wheeled me into flu ward, and I had to endure listening to all
of these slugs coughing and wheezing. What a bunch of babies. They all
thought they were gonna die. It was during a flu epidemic 5 years ago. I


Flu is a serious illness that kills thousands of people every year.

JT

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  #23  
Old July 15th 05, 07:02 AM
Werehatrack
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:59:55 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:41:37 GMT, "Jay S. Hill"
wrote:

wrote:
nonsense--rules specifically encouraging crashing had been
in force for over 90 years in the Tour de France.

Dear Señor Fogel;

A rule acknowledging that crashes might occur is not a rule that
encourages crashes. This murkily reminds me of the abortion debate.


Dear Jay,

Any economist would argue that a rule that removes the time
penalty for crashing in the last kilometer is encouraging
crashes in the last kilometer.

The law of supply and demand is not a question of morality,
nor is it murky.

Raise the cost of bicycle crashes in last kilometer of a
stage, and there will be fewer bicycle crashes. Lower the
cost, and there will be more.

Racers respond to market forces.


I'm not sure I see the logic here; if he's in the lead when he goes
down, the crashed rider presumably does not benefit relative to the
time he'd have achieved if he had not gone down, though perhaps (if I
understand it correctly) he might benefit if he crashes while riding
well back from the center of his group. Somehow I doubt that this
interpretation is the correct one; if it were, every trailing rider
would contrive to fetch up against an obstacle in the last km, and The
Art Of The Crash would be a required course for the marginally
competitive rider.
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  #24  
Old July 15th 05, 08:11 AM
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:02:47 GMT, Werehatrack
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:59:55 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:41:37 GMT, "Jay S. Hill"
wrote:

wrote:
nonsense--rules specifically encouraging crashing had been
in force for over 90 years in the Tour de France.

Dear Señor Fogel;

A rule acknowledging that crashes might occur is not a rule that
encourages crashes. This murkily reminds me of the abortion debate.


Dear Jay,

Any economist would argue that a rule that removes the time
penalty for crashing in the last kilometer is encouraging
crashes in the last kilometer.

The law of supply and demand is not a question of morality,
nor is it murky.

Raise the cost of bicycle crashes in last kilometer of a
stage, and there will be fewer bicycle crashes. Lower the
cost, and there will be more.

Racers respond to market forces.


I'm not sure I see the logic here; if he's in the lead when he goes
down, the crashed rider presumably does not benefit relative to the
time he'd have achieved if he had not gone down, though perhaps (if I
understand it correctly) he might benefit if he crashes while riding
well back from the center of his group. Somehow I doubt that this
interpretation is the correct one; if it were, every trailing rider
would contrive to fetch up against an obstacle in the last km, and The
Art Of The Crash would be a required course for the marginally
competitive rider.


Dear Werehatrack,

A rider who crashes in the last kilometer obviously benefits
by being guaranteed a faster finishing time than he actually
had, as long as he can get up and still finish the race.

This does assume that groups of riders who stay upright will
finish noticeably faster than riders who fall, but that's a
rather safe assumption.

Riders who can't brake or corner well are encouraged to try
to keep up with better riders. They don't try to crash, but
they risk much more because crashing doesn't cost them as
much.

Clumsy Carl Who Can't Corner (U.S.) knows that he will earn
the same time as Artful Archibald Arc-Carver (G.B.) as long
as he survives his surprisingly frequent end-of-stage slides
into the hay bales.

So Clumsy Carl throws a little more caution to the wind at
the red flag because he isn't risking a time penalty.

Afterward, Clumsy Carl tends to blame the officials who put
the finish line near a corner, the rain that left the road
wet, the local road department that should have re-paved the
road, the riders who fell in front of him, the riders who
didn't, and just about everything else except the fact that
he was going faster than his ability and fell down.

Clumsy Carl may say something about how glad he is that he
crashed after the red flag and didn't hurt his team's time.

The interviewer will then exclaim about how it could happen
to anybody.

And Archibald Arc-Carver will nod sympathetically and make a
mental note to keep the hell away from Clumsy Carl after the
red flag--the dumb son-of-a-bitch doesn't care if he crashes
when there's no time penalty.

Notice that riders tend to crash much less often where the
cost is much higher--we don't see many riders flying off
over the edges of Alpine cliffs or smashing into stone
walls.

In the tiny red-flag zone, riders tend to go as fast as they
can pedal, not as fast as they can stay upright. This is one
reason why there are so many crashes and complaints in the
otherwise unexceptional final stretch.

Are there any other kinds of racing in which crashing in the
crucial last 0.5% of the course suffers no time penalty?

Imagine if a year-long world car championship series of 12
races counted only the 7 best finishes. The mechanics would
start building more powerful and less reliable engines
because a 50% engine failure rate would no longer matter as
much as it used to.

This sort of situation is common in observed trials. Riders
often have to decide whether to take a planned dab to be
almost certain of getting through an obstacle section with
only one penalty point, or to try to clean the section and
lose no points. Without the risk of losing 5 marks for
failure, everyone would try to ride through with their feet
up.

Carl Fogel
  #25  
Old July 15th 05, 10:10 AM
Donald Munro
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

Jay Beattie wrote:
... a helmet is not a free pass to immortality.


gwhite wrote:
I am selling tin foil hats though. Not free, but at an affordable cost.


You capitalist cycling dog.


  #26  
Old July 15th 05, 10:10 AM
Donald Munro
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

B. Lafferty wrote:
I'll bet you **** with a helmet and heart rate monitor. Probably a good
thing, too.


You need a helmet if you're going to **** with your head in the sand.


  #27  
Old July 15th 05, 10:40 AM
Donald Munro
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

Callistus Valerius wrote:
stunk. They wheeled me into flu ward, and I had to endure listening to all
of these slugs coughing and wheezing. What a bunch of babies. They all
thought they were gonna die. It was during a flu epidemic 5 years ago. I


John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
Flu is a serious illness that kills thousands of people every year.


As is stupidity.
  #28  
Old July 15th 05, 11:14 AM
B. Lafferty
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet


"gwhite" wrote in message
...
Jay Beattie wrote:


... a helmet is not a free pass to
immortality.


I am selling tin foil hats though. Not free, but at an affordable cost.


http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html


  #29  
Old July 15th 05, 02:10 PM
Qui si parla Campagnolo
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Default Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet



Jay Beattie wrote:


Like, does the name Casartelli ring a bell?


He actually hit more of his face than his upper head but I agree...

Helmets-don't hurt, may help. What's so diffuclt to understand?

On the flip side, the recent death of a helmeted racer here in
Portland, Or. shows that a helmet is not a free pass to
immortality. http://tinyurl.com/7pefv I raced that course for
years without so much as a close call. The finish is so wide and
the set-up is so long that there is rarely a mishap. This poor
guy just got in the wrong place and bit it going full blast with
a helmet on. -- Jay Beattie.


 




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