"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments

Im hoping some of our European friends will comment here. I know the US is
famous for class mobility, but I was under the impression that class
immobility was a thing of the past even in Europe... especially after the
two world wars shook up the social structure. Bob obviously disagrees..and
he's been there, which gives him a big advantage over me (a "dumbass", no
doubt).

What do our European friends think? Rigid class structure and social
pressure to stay put? Or is social mobility now the norm?

thanks,
steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:56:22 GMT, "steve" a écrit :

Im hoping some of our European friends will comment here. I know the US is
famous for class mobility, but I was under the impression that class
immobility was a thing of the past even in Europe... especially after the
two world wars shook up the social structure. Bob obviously disagrees..and
he's been there, which gives him a big advantage over me (a "dumbass", no
doubt).

What do our European friends think? Rigid class structure and social
pressure to stay put? Or is social mobility now the norm?

thanks,
steve

Davey thinks Roll is an uncouth, ignorant, semi literate slob with an
IQ somewhere around 4O and who has difficulty stringing more than two
words together to form a coherent sentence and who definitely isn't
qualified to comment on anything more profound than what he had for
breakfast.

There Roll, it's payback time

Remember shouting your usual garbage at an older rider in the
Place Massena in July 1988?

The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They
don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class
of the US. There are some slight chances for inter-caste mobility both
in Europe and the US - either with a lucky, huge lottery win, or as in
some cases, those lucky enough to be in the right place at the right
time during the internet boom. In any case, if you aren't already
wealthy, you've missed out.
Revtom

steve wrote:
Im hoping some of our European friends will comment here. I know the US is
famous for class mobility, but I was under the impression that class
immobility was a thing of the past even in Europe... especially after the
two world wars shook up the social structure. Bob obviously disagrees..and
he's been there, which gives him a big advantage over me (a "dumbass", no
doubt).

What do our European friends think? Rigid class structure and social
pressure to stay put? Or is social mobility now the norm?

thanks,
steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

"Revtom" wrote in message
oups.com...
The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They
don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class
of the US.

See? I told you that idiots are everywhere.

Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median
income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low - Miami -
are $35K/year.

What's more, 95% of ALL taxes are paid by the upper half of all income
earners.

Did you know that you can own your own home and have a new car and be on
welfare?

This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying.
Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their ability
if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can discover
simply by talking to any factory worker.

Too bad that revtom doesn't understand what he doesn't understand.

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Revtom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Unsubstantiated accusations

The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They
don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class
of the US.

are followed by wishful thinking

This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying.
Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their ability
if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can discover
simply by talking to any factory worker.


Of course, one can read more widely and get closer to the truth. The
recent Economist article has already been cited. Here are others:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html

http://www.cipa-apex.org/toomuch/art...05/May23a.html

and an interesting summary of the research:

http://www.urban.org/publications/406722.html

As an immigrant and naturalized citizen the great appeal of the US is
that amidst the clutter and noise of the extremists, there is the calm
center where reasoned discussion prevails. Although, of late, it seems
that the center has shrunk or maybe it's just because I'm spending my
time on rbr.

Gabe Brovedani

On 16-Aug-2006, smacked up and reeling, Gabe Brovedani
blindly formulated
the following incoherence:

Of course, one can read more widely and get closer to the truth. The
recent Economist article has already been cited. Here are others:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html

A distinction should be made between the ability and opportunity for one to
ascend socially/economically and the actual practice of doing so. If one is
content to suck the public teat, make no effort, and gain no ground...well
that is certainly a failure of govt policy and personal initiative, but not
necessarily one of economic and class structure. The CSM article doesnt
draw this distinction.

I cant say how Europe compares to the US (other than to repeat some opinions
I've heard from the Europeans Ive talked to on the subject...all agreeing
that the US offers more opportunity) but it is clear (to anyone with eyes)
that virtually anyone who is willing to work hard can get ahead here in the
US. Perhaps unfortunately, even those who are unwilling to work can do
quite well, and that, I believe, is a big reason why so many do not work to
get ahead. That is not to say that there arent unfortunates who are worthy
of charitable assistance, but that the institutionalization of assistance
has created a perverse economic disincentive for a large underclass. It's
shameful.

steve
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce

steve wrote:
On 16-Aug-2006, smacked up and reeling, Gabe Brovedani
blindly formulated
the following incoherence:

hey, that's insulting

Of course, one can read more widely and get closer to the truth. The
recent Economist article has already been cited. Here are others:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html


A distinction should be made between the ability and opportunity for one to
ascend socially/economically and the actual practice of doing so. If one is
content to suck the public teat, make no effort, and gain no ground...well
that is certainly a failure of govt policy and personal initiative, but not
necessarily one of economic and class structure. The CSM article doesnt
draw this distinction.

Hey, I agree, which is why you should have read the last linked article
which made your very point, among others. Who's an incoherently blind
formula now?

Gabe Brovedani

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
nk.net...
"Revtom" wrote in message
oups.com...
The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They
don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class
of the US.

See? I told you that idiots are everywhere.

Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median
income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low -
Miami - are $35K/year.


Try Arkansas or Mississippi for very low wages and 'brain drain'.

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
nk.net...
"Revtom" wrote in message
oups.com...
The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They
don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class
of the US.

See? I told you that idiots are everywhere.

Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median
income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low -
Miami - are $35K/year.

What's more, 95% of ALL taxes are paid by the upper half of all income
earners.

Did you know that you can own your own home and have a new car and be on
welfare?

This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying.
Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their
ability if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can
discover simply by talking to any factory worker.

Too bad that revtom doesn't understand what he doesn't understand.



Read and learn. http://www.classism.org/index.php

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
nk.net...
"Revtom" wrote in message
oups.com...
The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They
don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class
of the US.

See? I told you that idiots are everywhere.

Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median
income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low -
Miami - are $35K/year.

What's more, 95% of ALL taxes are paid by the upper half of all income
earners.

Did you know that you can own your own home and have a new car and be on
welfare?

This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying.
Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their
ability if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can
discover simply by talking to any factory worker.

Too bad that revtom doesn't understand what he doesn't understand.

Read and learn. http://www.classism.org/index.php

I suggest you shut you pie hole idiot. I came from the bottom of the class
system to rise to upper middle class. All along the way I met people who had
started at the bottom and become rich and in some cases famous. And all
along the way I watch people who started at the top with silver spoons in
their mouths become homeless dope addicts sleeping in doorways in Berkeley
and San Francisco.

You rose FAR above you ability and decry the fact that people finally
noticed.