Training or Plain Riding?

In a race you need the latest equipment. Campy or Shimano top of the line
stuff, carbon fiber bikes, saddles without padding etc.

The problem is that people who don't race buy this stuff because they think
it's the "best" instead of "appropriate for racing".

Today we're seeing people riding around on the streets on equipment that
barely has a working life of a year and they don't know that.

Let's not mention the actual name of a major wheel manufacturer whose wheel
bearings are good for perhaps 10,000 miles and then need replacing. In fact
they can get so loose that the rocking of the axle can cause the freehub to
slip. Worst case you could destroy the freehub.

I can't tell you how many carbon hinged rear derailers I've seen with broken
pieces. And these aren't cheap. You're paying a small fortune to save 12
grams on a part that will never see a race for most people.

Mind you, Campagnolo and Shimano make components that are plenty reliable
and long lived. The top of the line stuff is designed to meet other
criteria. They are building them for the lightest possible weight now and
that means that they had to make decisions about product lifespan. Since
these parts are designed to be used by racers and are replaced, at the far
end, every year it means that you can't expect the best parts to have a
lifespan compatible with normal bicycle use.

It is true that most bicyclists who buy the most expensive stuff generally
don't ride all that much. And since they could afford the stuff in the first
place it isn't as if they can't afford to replace it when it gets broken.

But be aware that now it isn't just the components that are failing. Now
entire wheels, forks and frames are failing catastrophically and when they
do you're going down and it might be really hard.

Personally I'm six months into recovery from a failed front fork (caused by
a foot turned loose by a failed new fangled pedal). The foot could never
have gotten into the spokes of an older 32 spoke or more wheel but went
right in that expensive low spoke count wheel.

Last year a medium sized dog ran in front of a guy with whom I was riding.
The dog was essentially uninjured. The steering head broke off the bike and
my friend went head first into the asphalt. He broke his neck and for a long
hour I supposed he'd be dying. He survived and rides today. But if he was
riding a steel bike with a steel fork he wouldn't have crashed like that.

Here's the bottom line - if you're racing go ahead and use the lightest
stuff available. If you're training or just out on a ride maybe you ought to
be using stuff that you can rely upon.

IN A RACE YOU DO NOT NEED THE LATEST EQUIPMENT.

Here's the bottom line: If you're racing you DO NOT need the latest
equipment. If you're racing, come prepared. If you're training or just out
on a ride, and assuming you have disposible income to burn, go ahead and get
another bike with less bling and that way you'll be really safe, and don't
forget to wear a helmet because helmets will prevent you from becoming an
organ donor, but don't wear your "racing" helmet, rather, wear a helmet that
you can rely upon.

Thanks,

Magilla


"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
m...
In a race you need the latest equipment. Campy or Shimano top of the line
stuff, carbon fiber bikes, saddles without padding etc.

The problem is that people who don't race buy this stuff because they
think it's the "best" instead of "appropriate for racing".

Today we're seeing people riding around on the streets on equipment that
barely has a working life of a year and they don't know that.

Let's not mention the actual name of a major wheel manufacturer whose
wheel bearings are good for perhaps 10,000 miles and then need replacing.
In fact they can get so loose that the rocking of the axle can cause the
freehub to slip. Worst case you could destroy the freehub.

I can't tell you how many carbon hinged rear derailers I've seen with
broken pieces. And these aren't cheap. You're paying a small fortune to
save 12 grams on a part that will never see a race for most people.

Mind you, Campagnolo and Shimano make components that are plenty reliable
and long lived. The top of the line stuff is designed to meet other
criteria. They are building them for the lightest possible weight now and
that means that they had to make decisions about product lifespan. Since
these parts are designed to be used by racers and are replaced, at the far
end, every year it means that you can't expect the best parts to have a
lifespan compatible with normal bicycle use.

It is true that most bicyclists who buy the most expensive stuff generally
don't ride all that much. And since they could afford the stuff in the
first place it isn't as if they can't afford to replace it when it gets
broken.

But be aware that now it isn't just the components that are failing. Now
entire wheels, forks and frames are failing catastrophically and when they
do you're going down and it might be really hard.

Personally I'm six months into recovery from a failed front fork (caused
by a foot turned loose by a failed new fangled pedal). The foot could
never have gotten into the spokes of an older 32 spoke or more wheel but
went right in that expensive low spoke count wheel.

Last year a medium sized dog ran in front of a guy with whom I was riding.
The dog was essentially uninjured. The steering head broke off the bike
and my friend went head first into the asphalt. He broke his neck and for
a long hour I supposed he'd be dying. He survived and rides today. But if
he was riding a steel bike with a steel fork he wouldn't have crashed like
that.

Here's the bottom line - if you're racing go ahead and use the lightest
stuff available. If you're training or just out on a ride maybe you ought
to be using stuff that you can rely upon.

Dear Magilla,

Your post doesn't even respond to what he was saying, your moron.

Everything Tom said below is correct and Magilla-certified. A lot of you
dumbasses in here ride around "training" on 16 pound bikes with carbon fiber
chains and frames made out of balsa wood.

Hinault rode on steel. Steel is for real men.

Magilla


Magilla Gorilla wrote:

IN A RACE YOU DO NOT NEED THE LATEST EQUIPMENT.

Here's the bottom line: If you're racing you DO NOT need the latest
equipment. If you're racing, come prepared. If you're training or just out
on a ride, and assuming you have disposible income to burn, go ahead and get
another bike with less bling and that way you'll be really safe, and don't
forget to wear a helmet because helmets will prevent you from becoming an
organ donor, but don't wear your "racing" helmet, rather, wear a helmet that
you can rely upon.

Thanks,

Magilla

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
m...
In a race you need the latest equipment. Campy or Shimano top of the line
stuff, carbon fiber bikes, saddles without padding etc.

The problem is that people who don't race buy this stuff because they
think it's the "best" instead of "appropriate for racing".

Today we're seeing people riding around on the streets on equipment that
barely has a working life of a year and they don't know that.

Let's not mention the actual name of a major wheel manufacturer whose
wheel bearings are good for perhaps 10,000 miles and then need replacing.
In fact they can get so loose that the rocking of the axle can cause the
freehub to slip. Worst case you could destroy the freehub.

I can't tell you how many carbon hinged rear derailers I've seen with
broken pieces. And these aren't cheap. You're paying a small fortune to
save 12 grams on a part that will never see a race for most people.

Mind you, Campagnolo and Shimano make components that are plenty reliable
and long lived. The top of the line stuff is designed to meet other
criteria. They are building them for the lightest possible weight now and
that means that they had to make decisions about product lifespan. Since
these parts are designed to be used by racers and are replaced, at the far
end, every year it means that you can't expect the best parts to have a
lifespan compatible with normal bicycle use.

It is true that most bicyclists who buy the most expensive stuff generally
don't ride all that much. And since they could afford the stuff in the
first place it isn't as if they can't afford to replace it when it gets
broken.

But be aware that now it isn't just the components that are failing. Now
entire wheels, forks and frames are failing catastrophically and when they
do you're going down and it might be really hard.

Personally I'm six months into recovery from a failed front fork (caused
by a foot turned loose by a failed new fangled pedal). The foot could
never have gotten into the spokes of an older 32 spoke or more wheel but
went right in that expensive low spoke count wheel.

Last year a medium sized dog ran in front of a guy with whom I was riding.
The dog was essentially uninjured. The steering head broke off the bike
and my friend went head first into the asphalt. He broke his neck and for
a long hour I supposed he'd be dying. He survived and rides today. But if
he was riding a steel bike with a steel fork he wouldn't have crashed like
that.

Here's the bottom line - if you're racing go ahead and use the lightest
stuff available. If you're training or just out on a ride maybe you ought
to be using stuff that you can rely upon.

MagillaGorilla wrote:
Dear Magilla,

Your post doesn't even respond to what he was saying, your moron.

Everything Tom said below is correct and Magilla-certified. A lot of you
dumbasses in here ride around "training" on 16 pound bikes with carbon fiber
chains and frames made out of balsa wood.

Hinault rode on steel. Steel is for real men.


My manliness is validated, then.

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to do that for me.

On Dec 4, 10:10*pm, "Magilla Gorilla"
wrote:
IN A RACE YOU DO NOT NEED THE LATEST EQUIPMENT.

Here's the bottom line: If you're racing you DO NOT need the latest
equipment. *If you're racing, come prepared. *If you're training or just out
on a ride, and assuming you have disposible income to burn, go ahead and get
another bike with less bling and that way you'll be really safe, and don't
forget to wear a helmet because helmets will prevent you from becoming an
organ donor, but don't wear your "racing" helmet, rather, wear a helmet that
you can rely upon.

Thanks,

Magilla

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in messagenews:U6ednaH0P9IwO6XUnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@earth link.com...

In a race you need the latest equipment. Campy or Shimano top of the line
stuff, carbon fiber bikes, saddles without padding etc.

The problem is that people who don't race buy this stuff because they
think it's the "best" instead of "appropriate for racing".

Today we're seeing people riding around on the streets on equipment that
barely has a working life of a year and they don't know that.

Let's not mention the actual name of a major wheel manufacturer whose
wheel bearings are good for perhaps 10,000 miles and then need replacing.
In fact they can get so loose that the rocking of the axle can cause the
freehub to slip. Worst case you could destroy the freehub.

I can't tell you how many carbon hinged rear derailers I've seen with
broken pieces. And these aren't cheap. You're paying a small fortune to
save 12 grams on a part that will never see a race for most people.

Mind you, Campagnolo and Shimano make components that are plenty reliable
and long lived. The top of the line stuff is designed to meet other
criteria. They are building them for the lightest possible weight now and
that means that they had to make decisions about product lifespan. Since
these parts are designed to be used by racers and are replaced, at the far
end, every year it means that you can't expect the best parts to have a
lifespan compatible with normal bicycle use.

It is true that most bicyclists who buy the most expensive stuff generally
don't ride all that much. And since they could afford the stuff in the
first place it isn't as if they can't afford to replace it when it gets
broken.

But be aware that now it isn't just the components that are failing. Now
entire wheels, forks and frames are failing catastrophically and when they
do you're going down and it might be really hard.

Personally I'm six months into recovery from a failed front fork (caused
by a foot turned loose by a failed new fangled pedal). The foot could
never have gotten into the spokes of an older 32 spoke or more wheel but
went right in that expensive low spoke count wheel.

Last year a medium sized dog ran in front of a guy with whom I was riding.
The dog was essentially uninjured. The steering head broke off the bike
and my friend went head first into the asphalt. He broke his neck and for
a long hour I supposed he'd be dying. He survived and rides today. But if
he was riding a steel bike with a steel fork he wouldn't have crashed like
that.

Here's the bottom line - if you're racing go ahead and use the lightest
stuff available. If you're training or just out on a ride maybe you ought
to be using stuff that you can rely upon.

It would be interesting to find out how long a frame lasts Lance
Armstrong. It used to be a frame would last a season. But Lance gets
new designs and colors during the season. I doubt Trek or other carbon
fiber frame company is willing to release the info about how long a
frame lasts for the pro's. But the pro teams go through a lot bikes
due to crashes etc. I remember seeing a picture of Banesto's shop and
they must have had at least 30-40 complete bikes. Eddy Merckx once
said that he supplies at least 50-60 frames to team.

In article
,
hizark21 wrote:

It would be interesting to find out how long a frame lasts Lance
Armstrong. It used to be a frame would last a season. But Lance gets
new designs and colors during the season. I doubt Trek or other carbon
fiber frame company is willing to release the info about how long a
frame lasts for the pro's. But the pro teams go through a lot bikes
due to crashes etc. I remember seeing a picture of Banesto's shop and
they must have had at least 30-40 complete bikes. Eddy Merckx once
said that he supplies at least 50-60 frames to team.

The biggest issue is that any ProTour team (and the teams that could
reasonably aspire to ProTour status have access to more money and more
bikes.

It is no longer necessary for a top team to know or care whether a
crashed bike is still safe. They just replace it on general principles.

Also, 50-60 frames doesn't seem high for a team that probably has 20
regular riders.

20 road bikes
20 TT bikes
20 more bikes, probably split between a pool of common spares, dedicated
road and TT spares for 1-3 team leaders, and specials like a yellow bike
in case your man leads the race at any point.

Add onto that Roubaix specials, and you can see where they're spec-ing
50-60 frames from.

The things that non-racers do to bikes in the real world, BTW, are way
worse for bikes than what racers generally do, barring mishap.

A pro certainly rides his bikes more than almost any amateur. But there
are a great many amateurs who buy the same bike as a pro (and with cf
construction, it very likely is the same frame, often even the same
measurements), and then will ride it for years and years, possibly for a
great number of miles, and treat it even less gently than pros treat
their frames.

Nonetheless, those frames aren't generally failing. This treatment
describes most of the local amateur racers I know, and their frames
aren't breaking down. Barring a crash, frame failure is pretty rare.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:33:19 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote:


It would be interesting to find out how long a frame lasts Lance
Armstrong. It used to be a frame would last a season. But Lance gets
new designs and colors during the season. I doubt Trek or other carbon
fiber frame company is willing to release the info about how long a
frame lasts for the pro's. But the pro teams go through a lot bikes
due to crashes etc. I remember seeing a picture of Banesto's shop and
they must have had at least 30-40 complete bikes. Eddy Merckx once
said that he supplies at least 50-60 frames to team.

A guy I know rode for one of the top US pro road teams. Nothing like
the intensity of a pro team in Europe, but a team that contended and
won the biggest races in the US, and rode Trek OCLV frames. Most guys
on the team had a home bike for training and local racing, and would
use two or three frames over the course of the year.

And, if a frame wasn't especially beat, the team would sometimes sell
them at the end of the year. Another friend of mine rode one of those
teams bikes for a bunch of years like that.

On Dec 11, 8:30*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:33:19 -0800 (PST), hizark21

wrote:
It would be interesting to find out how long a frame lasts Lance
Armstrong. *It used to be a frame would last a season. But Lance gets
new designs and colors during the season. I doubt Trek or other carbon
fiber frame company is willing to release the info about how long a
frame lasts for the pro's. *But the pro teams go through a lot bikes
due to crashes etc. I remember seeing a picture of Banesto's shop and
they must have had at least 30-40 complete bikes. Eddy Merckx once
said that he supplies at least 50-60 frames to team.

A guy I know rode for one of the top US pro road teams. Nothing like
the intensity of a pro team in Europe, but a team that contended and
won the biggest races in the US, and rode Trek OCLV frames. *Most guys
on the team had a home bike for training and local racing, and would
use two or three frames over the course of the year.

And, if a frame wasn't especially beat, the team would sometimes sell
them at the end of the year. *Another friend of mine rode one of those
teams bikes for a bunch of years like that.

Most of the frame replacements are due to crashes. There is more
crashes in euro pro races because there is bigger peleton and bigger
field sprints. The other factor is that level of racing is much faster
and the pave as well.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:36:38 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:30*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:33:19 -0800 (PST), hizark21

wrote:
It would be interesting to find out how long a frame lasts Lance
Armstrong. *It used to be a frame would last a season. But Lance gets
new designs and colors during the season. I doubt Trek or other carbon
fiber frame company is willing to release the info about how long a
frame lasts for the pro's. *But the pro teams go through a lot bikes
due to crashes etc. I remember seeing a picture of Banesto's shop and
they must have had at least 30-40 complete bikes. Eddy Merckx once
said that he supplies at least 50-60 frames to team.

A guy I know rode for one of the top US pro road teams. Nothing like
the intensity of a pro team in Europe, but a team that contended and
won the biggest races in the US, and rode Trek OCLV frames. *Most guys
on the team had a home bike for training and local racing, and would
use two or three frames over the course of the year.

And, if a frame wasn't especially beat, the team would sometimes sell
them at the end of the year. *Another friend of mine rode one of those
teams bikes for a bunch of years like that.

Most of the frame replacements are due to crashes. There is more
crashes in euro pro races because there is bigger peleton and bigger
field sprints. The other factor is that level of racing is much faster
and the pave as well.

You think going faster wears out frames?

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
A guy I know rode for one of the top US pro road teams. Nothing like
the intensity of a pro team in Europe, but a team that contended and
won the biggest races in the US, and rode Trek OCLV frames. Most guys
on the team had a home bike for training and local racing, and would
use two or three frames over the course of the year.

And, if a frame wasn't especially beat, the team would sometimes sell
them at the end of the year. Another friend of mine rode one of those
teams bikes for a bunch of years like that.

Note that this would not be the case if that team were
riding overheated, factory produced steel bikes. The
kind that would be acceptable to Bill's friend, for
safety reasons.

Bob Schwartz