#121
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"chris" wrote in message
m... "Andy Coggan" wrote in message hlink.net... "chris" wrote in message om... I hate to break this to you, but the USOC lab in CS has been doing this kind of thing for years...about all that has been learned as a result is that the Conconi test (proposed/developed/popularized by somebody with a background very similar to Ferrari's or Testa's) is total crap. Well I guess some of the coaches in NE haven't gotten wind of this yet! ;~`) Are you referring to Cycle-Smart? I thought that they had given up on that approach. In all fairness, I was not not specifically pointing to any one group, but I've seen the term "Conconi test" batted around by a few coaches and on some websites. It is possible these sites are out of date. It's also possible that by 'Conconi test' these coaches/websites simply meant an incremental exercise test to fatigue. Many people seem to confused the two. Andy Coggan |
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#122
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Longer crankarms
"chris" wrote in message
m... "Andy Coggan" wrote in message hlink.net... "chris" wrote in message om... I hate to break this to you, but the USOC lab in CS has been doing this kind of thing for years...about all that has been learned as a result is that the Conconi test (proposed/developed/popularized by somebody with a background very similar to Ferrari's or Testa's) is total crap. Well I guess some of the coaches in NE haven't gotten wind of this yet! ;~`) Are you referring to Cycle-Smart? I thought that they had given up on that approach. In all fairness, I was not not specifically pointing to any one group, but I've seen the term "Conconi test" batted around by a few coaches and on some websites. It is possible these sites are out of date. It's also possible that by 'Conconi test' these coaches/websites simply meant an incremental exercise test to fatigue. Many people seem to confused the two. Andy Coggan |
#123
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"warren" wrote in message
... In article .net, Andy Coggan wrote: a single blood lactate measurement at a fixed power output is just as predictive of performance ability as assessing the entire curve: I've seen otherwise. Max and Mike Carter (he's now at UC Davis Sports Performance) could tell you far more than I can about this but they have specifically addressed this topic with me and you are quite simply, wrong. No, I'm not - and rather than having to rely on my own unpublished observations, or, worse still, just what others have told me, I can point to peer-reviewed articles supporting my position (as I did). Andy Coggan |
#124
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"warren" wrote in message
... In article .net, Andy Coggan wrote: a single blood lactate measurement at a fixed power output is just as predictive of performance ability as assessing the entire curve: I've seen otherwise. Max and Mike Carter (he's now at UC Davis Sports Performance) could tell you far more than I can about this but they have specifically addressed this topic with me and you are quite simply, wrong. No, I'm not - and rather than having to rely on my own unpublished observations, or, worse still, just what others have told me, I can point to peer-reviewed articles supporting my position (as I did). Andy Coggan |
#125
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"chris" wrote in message
om... OK, BREAK guys! I would like to add that Andy has brought up some very good points here, which is why one needs to be cautious when utilizing testing. I, however, still use lactate testing and do find it very useful, but I no longer use LT testing because of the aformentioned problems. In fact, I use only a handful of samples, one submax (~4 mM +/-) and one max. In my experience, I've been able to control training and "predict" performance rather well from this method. HOWEVER, the biggest help I've seen has come from continuous use of a power meter. Overall, I would contend that riders don't use the thing properly at all. Always afraid its too heavy, or they don't know what to do with the data. I have an SRM that makes my bike 0.1 lbs heavier, which is nothing compared to the data it provides me. So taken as a whole, I think the argument for or against lactate testing is moot if you don't know how to utilize what you have. I'm sure you'll find many who agree with Andy, many who don't, but few who can argue why? Don't get me wrong...despite certain limitations I do think that there are times when measuring blood lactate (or other physiological parameters, e.g., VO2max, efficiency) can provide additional insight into the factors determining a person's performance, and hence can be useful in planning training. It's just that I (like you, apparently) don't think there's anything to be gained from obsessing over the exact shape of the lactate-power curve, esp. since lactate concentration can vary significantly due to extraneous factors (e.g., muscle glycogen stores). I've said it before and I'll say it again: the best predictor of performance is performance itself. Andy Coggan |
#126
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Longer crankarms
"chris" wrote in message
om... OK, BREAK guys! I would like to add that Andy has brought up some very good points here, which is why one needs to be cautious when utilizing testing. I, however, still use lactate testing and do find it very useful, but I no longer use LT testing because of the aformentioned problems. In fact, I use only a handful of samples, one submax (~4 mM +/-) and one max. In my experience, I've been able to control training and "predict" performance rather well from this method. HOWEVER, the biggest help I've seen has come from continuous use of a power meter. Overall, I would contend that riders don't use the thing properly at all. Always afraid its too heavy, or they don't know what to do with the data. I have an SRM that makes my bike 0.1 lbs heavier, which is nothing compared to the data it provides me. So taken as a whole, I think the argument for or against lactate testing is moot if you don't know how to utilize what you have. I'm sure you'll find many who agree with Andy, many who don't, but few who can argue why? Don't get me wrong...despite certain limitations I do think that there are times when measuring blood lactate (or other physiological parameters, e.g., VO2max, efficiency) can provide additional insight into the factors determining a person's performance, and hence can be useful in planning training. It's just that I (like you, apparently) don't think there's anything to be gained from obsessing over the exact shape of the lactate-power curve, esp. since lactate concentration can vary significantly due to extraneous factors (e.g., muscle glycogen stores). I've said it before and I'll say it again: the best predictor of performance is performance itself. Andy Coggan |
#127
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"warren" wrote in message ... In article .net, Andy Coggan wrote: "warren" wrote in message ... What is my power output at 1m/Mol? 1 m/Mol vs. 2 m/Mol? 2 vs. 4? Is it changing? How much? What is the shape of the curve between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 4 and 5,? I don't know and I don't care, but I can tell you this: all of the various power values are highly intercorrelated, with R values 0.9: I've seen the tests that show otherwise. Some were my own. You forgot to post the Pubmed link. |
#128
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"warren" wrote in message ... In article .net, Andy Coggan wrote: "warren" wrote in message ... What is my power output at 1m/Mol? 1 m/Mol vs. 2 m/Mol? 2 vs. 4? Is it changing? How much? What is the shape of the curve between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 4 and 5,? I don't know and I don't care, but I can tell you this: all of the various power values are highly intercorrelated, with R values 0.9: I've seen the tests that show otherwise. Some were my own. You forgot to post the Pubmed link. |
#129
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I concur...too bad riders are obsessed with weight to the point they
avoid using their power meters at all costs in a race. CH I've said it before and I'll say it again: the best predictor of performance is performance itself. Andy Coggan |
#130
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I concur...too bad riders are obsessed with weight to the point they
avoid using their power meters at all costs in a race. CH I've said it before and I'll say it again: the best predictor of performance is performance itself. Andy Coggan |
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