Recumbents & Speed?

Robert Chung wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote:

"MortDubois" wrote in message


The only "interesting" tactic to
increase the 81 mph record was doing it at altitude - just like all
those guys who do their hour record in Mexico City or Colorado.

Real men do it near sea level.


How high does one have to be to make such a record attempt (and I'm not
really talking about altitude)?

Do you mean "how high off the ground" or something?

Curtis L. Russell wrote in message

It's funny seeing all these RBR regulars still being wingnuts about
the recumbent question.

Actually the replies were probably the most balanced and non-wingnut
posted, from either side.

I'd say the 'bent side has posted here in a balanced way for years
now. Yet nearly all the bent-bashers in this thread posted with
hilarious ignorance. So the balance is still way lopsided despite the
easy info disproving the other side easily available many places
online.

--JP

Jeff Potter wrote:
It's funny seeing all these RBR regulars still being wingnuts about
the recumbent question.



They're race-legal in the USCF if under 2 meters for both TT and mass
start with official's OK (and the 2m rule is eased sometimes).

Nope, not any more. New this year is USCF rule 1J1(f):

"Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in
USCF races unless there is a seperate race for this category
of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category."

http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/...f_rulebook.pdf

Mark McMaster

(MortDubois) wrote in message . com...

[ ] They just aren't suitable for racing with regular bikes.

All my interactions with uprights and packs in races and racing
situations have been fine. We're talking a couple dozen interactions.
Not all that many, though.

But I've never even heard of an untoward interaction of a race-skilled
'benter with upright racers.

So this evidence of bad interaction doesn't seem to exist yet. And
evidence of good interaction does.

Does anyone have reports of good or bad interactions between
race-level skills 'benters and uprights?

Otherwise very good post and helpful BentRiderOnline link.

*FROM ANOTHER POST:

They're race-legal in the USCF if under 2 meters for both TT and mass
start with official's OK (and the 2m rule is eased sometimes).

Nope, not any more. New this year is USCF rule 1J1(f):

"Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in
USCF races unless there is a seperate race for this category
of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category."

http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/...f_rulebook.pdf

Mark McMaster

WOW! Well, that's news. I'm not in on HPV org's but I woulda thought
there'd be huge noise about this one. I wonder how or why it happened.
Didn't a 'bent win a USCF Masters age-group TT last year? Maybe it's
Faure all over again! Bummer. 'Benters had been working with officials
more and more for past 10 years, gaining acceptance, proving
themselves worthy at every turn. No downsides reported. Man, I wonder
what happened. Success?

Thanks, JP

Jeff Potter wrote:

"Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in
USCF races unless there is a seperate race for this category
of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category."

http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/...f_rulebook.pdf

Mark McMaster

WOW! Well, that's news. I'm not in on HPV org's but I woulda thought
there'd be huge noise about this one. I wonder how or why it happened.
Didn't a 'bent win a USCF Masters age-group TT last year? Maybe it's
Faure all over again! Bummer. 'Benters had been working with officials
more and more for past 10 years, gaining acceptance, proving
themselves worthy at every turn. No downsides reported. Man, I wonder
what happened. Success?

USAC is trying to bring their rules into compliance with UCI rules.
There are other rule changes that are being phased in as well.
The rulebook summarizes these, McMaster gave you the link.
No conspiracy. Other than the usual UCI Upright Black Helicopter
Conspiracy, that is.

Benjamin Weiner wrote in message news:40d32ff7$1@darkstar...
[ ]
USAC is trying to bring their rules into compliance with UCI rules.
There are other rule changes that are being phased in as well.
The rulebook summarizes these, McMaster gave you the link.
No conspiracy. Other than the usual UCI Upright Black Helicopter
Conspiracy, that is.

Ah, and no public input or affected party input apparently either, eh?
It's great that a democratic group is following a top-down one so
closely, eh? Lovely. Responsive.

--JP

Mark McMaster wrote in message ...
Jeff Potter wrote:
[ ]

They're race-legal in the USCF if under 2 meters for both TT and mass
start with official's OK (and the 2m rule is eased sometimes).

Nope, not any more. New this year is USCF rule 1J1(f):

"Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in
USCF races unless there is a seperate race for this category
of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category."

http://www.usacycling.org/rulebooks/...f_rulebook.pdf

OK, they now have to be in separate cats. Now I've seen small fields
merged into the same start, race, field. I'm not sure how prizes are
handled then. Would officials be allowed to do this with 'bents? Say a
'bent shows up and the official wants to let him in. He's not going to
get a separate race/start, etc., probably. A field of one? But maybe
he'd be started with the Women/Vets/Jrs/Cat5s and whatever other group
of cats is being started and raced together. If there's one Cat 4 at a
race and the official decides to start him with some other cat can he
contend for prize? Say, if he's allowed into the Cat 3 field. Anyway,
it seems like cats are different critters from fields, starts and
prizes. Any pattern for handling this stuff? How would this relate to
'bents? --JP

On 21 Jun 2004 11:27:50 -0700, (Jeff Potter)
wrote:

Any pattern for handling this stuff? How would this relate to
'bents?

It isn't that simple. There are limits to how you can mix categories
in one field. And they are semi-locked in when you do the permit and
flyer. On the day of the race the organizer has some latitude when
fields end up small and the racers agree to it.

Some D and E races are structured for flexibility, specifically
granting the organizer the right to unilaterally combine permissible
fields if there aren't enough registered, usually coupled with
calculated prize amounts. Most of these don't make it to classic
status...

Again, IMO this is all irrelevant to recumbents. A recumbent is not
permitted now in a USCF race, just in a separate race in a USCF race
session. You can put them on the flyer and add them to the permit, but
they won't be legal to mix. You can't have an illegal bike and racer
mixed in a legal USCF race. You can't have a USCF legal racer in a
USCF legal category taking pace off of an illegal bike.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell wrote in message . ..
[ ]
Again, IMO this is all irrelevant to recumbents. A recumbent is not
permitted now in a USCF race, just in a separate race in a USCF race
session. You can put them on the flyer and add them to the permit, but
they won't be legal to mix. You can't have an illegal bike and racer
mixed in a legal USCF race. [ ]


I don't necessarily get "illegal" from the new rule. And it does seem
possibly close to "new category" wording. It's close to "illegal"
wording and not close to "new cat" but it's not that explicit either
way. Again:

"Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in
USCF races unless there is a seperate race for this category
of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category."


--JP

In article , Jeff
Potter wrote:

Curtis L. Russell wrote in message
. ..
[ ]
Again, IMO this is all irrelevant to recumbents. A recumbent is not
permitted now in a USCF race, just in a separate race in a USCF race
session. You can put them on the flyer and add them to the permit, but
they won't be legal to mix. You can't have an illegal bike and racer
mixed in a legal USCF race. [ ]


I don't necessarily get "illegal" from the new rule. And it does seem
possibly close to "new category" wording. It's close to "illegal"
wording and not close to "new cat" but it's not that explicit either
way. Again:

"Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in
USCF races unless there is a seperate race for this category
of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category."


I think the wording does make it clear that recumbents and USCF legal
bikes should not be mixed together. THe rule states that recumbents
can't be raced unless ther eis a seperate race for them. This would
exclude starting recumbents and USCF legal bikes at the same time. If
nothing else I think you need to look at the intent of the USCF board
when this rule was passed and I think the intent is that for safety
reasons the USCF Board does not want rrecumbents and USCF legal bikes
racing together in the same group.