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#1
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
I got my new MTB frame in the mail yesterday, and the first thing I noticed
was that it was totally clean. Spotless. Greaseless. Honed, sparkling, radiant. The BB shell was clean with no paint in the threads, the headtube the same, and the dropouts properly prepped with no paint where the axle sits. This was a $200 MTB frame from Taiwan. Now, flashback to two weeks ago. A customer's crash-replacement Made-in-Italy Bianchi Pinella frame ($1800 retail) comes in for me to build up, and although there's no problems on painted areas, there's virtually no attention to detail when it comes to the bottom bracket or headset! There's slag strewn everywhere inside the BB (even bits I can break off with my fingernail), there's bubbling on the opposing side of the welds, it's totally unfinished with paint all up in the threads, and the headtube looks plain discolored and ugly. This was a steel frame, so I don't know if the rules governing steel are different from aluminum, but upon first look, I would have been ashamed if I were a framebuilder and let one go out like that. Sure there's prep required on the bike shop end, but can there really be so little workmanship pride on these high-end frames? What am I missing here? -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
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#2
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
I got my new MTB frame in the mail yesterday, and the first thing I noticed was that it was totally clean. Spotless. Greaseless. Oh and the MTB frame didn't smell like anything, it was so clean. Those of us that work at shops know how bad it is when a bike comes in all stinky. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
#3
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
Now, flashback to two weeks ago. A customer's crash-replacement Made-in-Italy Bianchi Pinella frame ($1800 retail) comes in for me to build up, and although there's no problems on painted areas, there's virtually no attention to detail when it comes to the bottom bracket or headset! There's slag strewn everywhere inside the BB (even bits I can break off with my fingernail), there's bubbling on the opposing side of the welds, it's totally unfinished with paint all up in the threads, and the headtube looks plain discolored and ugly. Though this is an extreme case,the principle of it is normal.Example: I have a 500 Euro italian Espresso machine here that'salways leaking, whilst a cheap german machine I have too is neatly finished. I prefer the italian one, though, because it has a "soul". It was made "con amore". Just open the hood of an Italian car and the one of a German car and compare. This is a cultural thing. Greets, Derk |
#4
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:57:28 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
wrote: I got my new MTB frame in the mail yesterday, and the first thing I noticed was that it was totally clean. Spotless. Greaseless. Honed, sparkling, radiant. The BB shell was clean with no paint in the threads, the headtube the same, and the dropouts properly prepped with no paint where the axle sits. This was a $200 MTB frame from Taiwan. Now, flashback to two weeks ago. A customer's crash-replacement Made-in-Italy Bianchi Pinella frame ($1800 retail) comes in for me to build up, and although there's no problems on painted areas, there's virtually no attention to detail when it comes to the bottom bracket or headset! There's slag strewn everywhere inside the BB (even bits I can break off with my fingernail), there's bubbling on the opposing side of the welds, it's totally unfinished with paint all up in the threads, and the headtube looks plain discolored and ugly. That's "old world craftmanship" and "character" for you. Not some soulless thing from Asia. JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#5
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote: I got my new MTB frame in the mail yesterday, and the first thing I noticed was that it was totally clean. Spotless. Greaseless. Honed, sparkling, radiant. The BB shell was clean with no paint in the threads, the headtube the same, and the dropouts properly prepped with no paint where the axle sits. This was a $200 MTB frame from Taiwan. Now, flashback to two weeks ago. A customer's crash-replacement Made-in-Italy Bianchi Pinella frame ($1800 retail) comes in for me to build up, and although there's no problems on painted areas, there's virtually no attention to detail when it comes to the bottom bracket or headset! There's slag strewn everywhere inside the BB (even bits I can break off with my fingernail), there's bubbling on the opposing side of the welds, it's totally unfinished with paint all up in the threads, and the headtube looks plain discolored and ugly. This was a steel frame, so I don't know if the rules governing steel are different from aluminum, but upon first look, I would have been ashamed if I were a framebuilder and let one go out like that. Sure there's prep required on the bike shop end, but can there really be so little workmanship pride on these high-end frames? What am I missing here? -- Phil, Squid-in-Training In that high end frame. I have seen poor prep and workmanship from just about every frame maker out there, European, Chinese, Tiawanese, US, depends. Alternatively, I have seen spectacular workmanship from small builders, like Nobilette and Mondonico. It's not because of steel, it's because of the bike biz being flat for so long and poor workmanship. They do not attract the craft-people they once did, except for asia... |
#6
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
It's not because of steel, it's because of the bike biz being flat for so long and poor workmanship. They do not attract the craft-people they once did, except for asia... The asia 200$ frame is not a product of dedicated craft-people executing great workmanship for personal satisfaction. It's the result of industrial production with state of the art technology and quality management. Doesn't lessen the quality of work on the worker's side, but it's a different driver. -- MfG/Best regards helmut springer |
#7
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:57:28 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
wrote: "People will put up with crap in a Ferrari they'd never tolerate in a Fiat." Over the years, the Italian builders have developed a reputation that does not require neatness. You didn't say anything about file marks on the lugs, they must be getting better. Ron |
#8
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
In article ,
Derk wrote: Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote: Now, flashback to two weeks ago. A customer's crash-replacement Made-in-Italy Bianchi Pinella frame ($1800 retail) comes in for me to build up, and although there's no problems on painted areas, there's virtually no attention to detail when it comes to the bottom bracket or headset! There's slag strewn everywhere inside the BB (even bits I can break off with my fingernail), there's bubbling on the opposing side of the welds, it's totally unfinished with paint all up in the threads, and the headtube looks plain discolored and ugly. Though this is an extreme case,the principle of it is normal.Example: I have a 500 Euro italian Espresso machine here that'salways leaking, whilst a cheap german machine I have too is neatly finished. I prefer the italian one, though, because it has a "soul". It was made "con amore". Just open the hood of an Italian car and the one of a German car and compare. This is a cultural thing. Greets, Derk Derk, you know why the Germans don't bother to make the stuff under the hood look pretty? Because nobody ever has to look there. ....wish this was true, since my mildly demented '98 VW Beetle is displaying its check engine light as we speak. A few months ago, the driver door nearly spontaneously fell off after two hinge bolts broke. Don't ask me how that ever possibly happens. ....then again, New Beetles are hecho en Mexico, for what that's worth. ....then again, I'm not sure most national generalizations hold up. The under-hood area of the 1st-gen Porsche 928 is very pretty (spider-like intake manifold with wiggly runners), while there is a vast succession of Alfas and Fiats with boring and ugly engines in them. ObBike: given how fast I ride, sometimes in traffic, I vote for soullessness. Those vampire-and-zombie constructed frames from Taiwan tend not to be exciting in such circumstances. Who knows when the amore may all run out of a crucial lug, leaving your butt alfresco con le pave? ....then again, I have a perfectly respectable Pinarello and Bianchi in the shed. ....then again, the Bianchi was made in Japan. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#9
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
RonSonic wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:57:28 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote: "People will put up with crap in a Ferrari they'd never tolerate in a Fiat." Over the years, the Italian builders have developed a reputation that does not require neatness. You didn't say anything about file marks on the lugs, they must be getting better. TIG. File marks??? I can add character to any frame with a big hammer... -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
#10
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Italian/steel frames need more prep?
Though this is an extreme case,the principle of it is normal.Example:
I have a 500 Euro italian Espresso machine here that'salways leaking, whilst a cheap german machine I have too is neatly finished. I prefer the italian one, though, because it has a "soul". It was made "con amore". Derk, it's funny you mention that. I am actually doing a senior mech engineering design project involving espresso machines. You're actually the target group that I'm designing for. Could you contact me off-list at phil_lee at hotmail dot com? -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
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