Is anyone clean?

"Tom Kunich" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Watched the prologue to the Dauphine yesterday after having been too
busy to follow pro cycling for a few months. Almost the entire
broadcast seemed to be taken up with who was out of the race for
doping, who was allowed in even though they're suspected, which teams
are gone, which might be gone for the TDF this year. It was unreal.
Maybe I haven't been following the pro cycling long enough so I'm a
naive wide-eyed idealist, but it was insane to listen to an hour and
a
half of OLN basically explaining who has and hasn't been caught
doping,
more or less.

When you have Armstrong's former right hand man (Haras), a former
teammate (Hamilton), an entire team undera cloud (Phonak) and on and
on and on it's hard not to wonder if it's not time just to cancel the
TDF and wait until there is real testing in place.

And please don't give me the (baseball players use steroids)
argument.
I don't watch baseball. I stopped watching long ago. And I'll stop
watching cycling if every race is a jig-saw puzzle of who got caught
and who didn't. Not so much because it screws with the integrity of
the
sport (although it does destroy what little integrity is left), but
more because it's boring to watch a sport where half of the
discussion
and drama is about cheating.

There is cheating in professional sports! Isn't that a surprise?
Cyclnig has its fair share of the cheaters since endurance sports are
most likely to be enhanced by undetectable or nearly so drugs.
Surprised?

But the MAJORITY of riders do not use illegal performance enhancing
drugs. I'm sort of remaining neutral on the blood packing stuff. I'm
wondering what an "honest" rider does to defend himself against
undetectable drugs that boost hematocrit to the legal limit.

Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as
you
can make. I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a
kink in the EPO traffikers.

Not to change the subject completely, but has anyone ever done the math
on accidents per rider/mile in the profession peleton as compared with,
say, accidents per pedestrian/mile or motorist/mile? I'm curious, since
we're talking about what's safe, what are we comparing to. After all,
truly safe is staying in bed all day. How about adding accidents per
rider/mile of the general, recreational cycling public as compared with
the pro peleton?

Inquiring minds and all that.

-S-


-S-

Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as you
can make. I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a
kink in the EPO traffikers.

Fine, make it legal then the cheaters will find another method of gaining an
advantage. What I am saying is that there will always be those who are
willing to cheat to gain an advantage.

wrote:
..

And please don't give me the (baseball players use steroids) argument.
I don't watch baseball. I stopped watching long ago. And I'll stop
watching cycling if every race is a jig-saw puzzle of who got caught
and who didn't.



snip



Newbie -


Please take your own advice and stop watching. Take your
holier-than-thou attitude and go away. You will be happier and so will
we.


thank you very much for your cooperation,

K. Gringioni.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Tom Kunich wrote:

There's the old Brian we all know and laugh at.

The guy isn't crazy or anything. He's a bit Lance-dominated, but his
take on doping is probably very very accurate.

His take? His take appears to be that everyone who rides a bike
professionally is an inveterate doper. Hell, even Willy Voet said that there
were cyclists that didn't use drugs even when EPO couldn't be tested for.
Dr. Testa stated at that time that if they didn't ALLOW a drug which
couldn't be tested for then it forces EVERYONE to use it and Andy Hampsten
said essentially that he quite rather than dope.

Obviously there is now so much money in cycling (though a mere pitance of
what is in other sports) so there will be those who will resort to anything
to maintain a living.

But a brave man doesn't accuse others to make himself feel better about his
own performances. Brian was having orgasms when Hamilton was destroyed on
what we now know to be inconclusive tests.

I asked the question then - it was CLAIMED that 80% of the peloton was using
blood packing but ONLY TWO people tested positive and that was with a test
that we now know had never had a false positives study done on it and all
it's previous uses weren't sensitive to false positives. Do you or anyone
other than Brain Dead Brian believe there are these blood labs all over
Europe holding riders blood for autologous transfusions?

How would you like to have someone like Brian sitting on a bench in a
courtroom where you were standing trial?

I spent a lot of time previously supporting Brian even as he slipped further
and further into ass-hood. But finally his "Everyone is a doper" appeared
one time too many for me. I suspect it will for you as well.

In article
.com,
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:

There's the old Brian we all know and laugh at.

The guy isn't crazy or anything. He's a bit Lance-dominated, but his
take on doping is probably very very accurate.

Brian's take on doping:

Brian knows The Truth. Everyone else is in denial.

--
Michael Press

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_3898478

Dave Zabriskie's take on the haters:

"I think people like that don't actually believe that human bodies could
be different," Zabriskie said. "There are very gifted people in their
world. I think it's lazy. They don't actually believe there's hard work
involved in it. . . . I know who's running these Web sites and they're
just idiots. I mean they're not journalists, they're not professional
cyclists."

--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the
trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view,
the most insidious of traitors."
George H.W. Bush, April 16, 1999,

But the MAJORITY of riders do not use illegal performance enhancing
drugs.

Tom, besides the huge scandals (wich have a scary tendency to
return..), riders as Rooks, Ducrot and Winnen stated that (almost)
everyone used. Especially Rooks has a "Palmares" that would make
envy/grudge unlikely. What is also very disconcerting that people as
Manzano seem to have been telling the truth, though EVERYONE denied it.


Consider this: I am a clean Pro. Someone beats me and it comes out that
he has been using Dope. I would sue him to kingdom come! He stole my
victory! Yet this doesn't happen at all.... Why?

These are indications that there is a "MAJORITY" using (blood)dope.

Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as you
can make.

If done in a LAB, yes. If done uncontrolled maybe less so?

I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a
kink in the EPO traffikers.

Legalizing would probably make it safer.

in message t, B.
Lafferty ') wrote:

You've been writing here since at least 1994 that there is no serious
doping problem in cycling. Hundreds of positives have put the lie to
that Kunich
absurdity. Add some 200 blood doping riders to your "minority." And
that
was only one operation in Spain. There are others.

There were two hundred bags. Not all contained blood; some contained
plasma. That represents blood from an unknown number of individuals but
certainly not more than 200; and from an unknown number of individuals
competing in an unknown number of sports, but reportedly including both
football and athletics. So we know that the number of cyclists involved
is less than 200, but we don't know that it's more than ten.

Agreed, this was only one operation, and there are probably others.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

in message ,
Michael Press ') wrote:

In article
.com,
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:

There's the old Brian we all know and laugh at.

The guy isn't crazy or anything. He's a bit Lance-dominated, but his
take on doping is probably very very accurate.

Brian's take on doping:

Brian knows The Truth. Everyone else is in denial.

No, no. Dey're in de Seine or de Tiber. No-one races in Egypt dese days.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.'
;; URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html

in message , Steve Freides
') wrote:

"Tom Kunich" wrote in message
oups.com...

Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as
you
can make. I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a
kink in the EPO traffikers.

Not to change the subject completely, but has anyone ever done the math
on accidents per rider/mile in the profession peleton as compared with,
say, accidents per pedestrian/mile or motorist/mile? I'm curious,
since
we're talking about what's safe, what are we comparing to. After all,
truly safe is staying in bed all day.

It isn't, you know. A lot of accidents happen in bed. To quote from the
Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (seriously)

"Where do accidents happen?
The most serious accidents involving older people usually happen on
the stairs or in the kitchen. The bedroom and the living room are the
most common locations for accidents in general."

In Britain I believe more people die of accidents in their beds each year
than die cycling. Furthermore, 17% of heart attacks are said to be
caused by sex. All in all, you're /much/ safer out on your bike
(although sex on your bike probably isn't that safe).

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they
;; do it from Â*religiousÂ*conviction." Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*--Â*Pascal