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#381
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OT Calling all Belgians
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:00:35 -0700, Howard Kveck
wrote: Things are not looking very good for Attorney General Going-Going-Gonzalez, are they? You can make a career from taking a bullet for a popular President. Uh, never mind. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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#382
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OT Calling all Belgians
On 21 Apr 2007 18:14:13 -0700, Bill C wrote:
Yep, and we prevented the oil fields in Kuwait and Iraq from being destroyed? The occupation has been a roaring success, We have total control, right? The oilfields in Iraq were secured without any damage. |
#383
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OT Calling all Belgians
On 21 Apr 2007 18:14:13 -0700, Bill C wrote:
In the mean time, if Iran were to escalate the war to this level, what do you think the US would be doing to Iran? Yep, and we prevented the oil fields in Kuwait and Iraq from being destroyed? The occupation has been a roaring success, We have total control, right? These are the same idiots that told Rumsfeld that we'd be down to 5000 troops in 1 1/2 years because the country would be secure. Nicely accurate. How the hell you could be concinced that the US, or anyone else for that matter, can keep an unconventional, and suicidal enemy from taking out important soft targets is beyond me. There was some slight success in Afghanistan, but reconstruction is moving at a snails pace due to sabotage and attacks. Iraq is a disaster. The Israelis are being rocketed daily. The Brits got smacked off the Falklands and missile tech has moved massively faster than point defense systems have been deployed. Every single thing happening around the globe, and 90% of the experts say you are in a fantasy land. We COULD crush Iran. The least damage would be with an all out, no warning first strike, and there'd still be tons of unconventional response that might not even do a ton of damage, but would generate massive press support for them. How did Tet work out. Militarily we destroyed them, politically and from a propaganda point they won the war. I bet you think we've won, "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq. You sure as hell must think so because you are blind to what everyone else sees and think Iran would be a cakewalk. Heard this **** before, seen it in action from these people, don't expect me to believe the pig **** has turned into truffles because you and a few morons who were wrong in Iraq say so. Bill C The discussion was about the Iranian's ability to close the SoH. Most military analysts feel that Iran could not close the straights for more than a few days. Are there other things that the Iranians could do? Of course and I'm sure that they will try to do whatever they can. However, there's nothing that they can do that's worse than letting them develop nuclear weapons. The US has secured its main goal in Iraq which was regime change. The nation building phase has gone poorly, but that was always a risk. However, the war in Iraq is still a success because Iraq unified under Saddam and his sons would be much more dangerous to the US than an Iraq that is divided and at war within itself. |
#384
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OT Calling all Belgians
On 21 Apr 2007 18:23:23 -0700, Bill C wrote:
How destabilizing would it be if Iran pulled its oil off world markets, were precluded from selling in world markets, or obstructed the shipment of its neighbors' oil? As I said, Iran lack the ability to stop shipment of oil through the GoH for very long. Naturally, they could stop shipping their own oil at any time. That would have a serious effect on oil prices around the world. The Saudis have extra potential and they could pick up some of the slack. The US could also release some of its strategic reserve to replace more of the Iranian shortfall. You also have to remember that Iran's oil card is a double edged sword. Iran's economy is in ruins and it's oil revenue that keeps the country afloat. They would also need money to fund the war. |
#385
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OT Calling all Belgians
On 21 Apr 2007 18:23:23 -0700, Bill C wrote:
Arguments both for, and against, but you chose to decalare their uncertainty to support YOUR position. Intellectually invalid, and typical it's starting to seem. Explain to me how the CSIS "VERY" argument supports your position. Bill C Like most military analysts, they look at best and worst case scenarios. Usually the reality comes out somewhere in between. |
#386
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OT Calling all Belgians
On Apr 22, 12:02 pm, Jack Hollis wrote:
On 21 Apr 2007 18:23:23 -0700, Bill C wrote: Arguments both for, and against, but you chose to decalare their uncertainty to support YOUR position. Intellectually invalid, and typical it's starting to seem. Explain to me how the CSIS "VERY" argument supports your position. Bill C Like most military analysts, they look at best and worst case scenarios. Usually the reality comes out somewhere in between. You're amazing, and now might as well be quoting me. Thanks Bill C |
#387
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OT Calling all Belgians
On Apr 22, 4:52 pm, Bill C wrote:
On Apr 22, 12:02 pm, Jack Hollis wrote: On 21 Apr 2007 18:23:23 -0700, Bill C wrote: Arguments both for, and against, but you chose to decalare their uncertainty to support YOUR position. Intellectually invalid, and typical it's starting to seem. Explain to me how the CSIS "VERY" argument supports your position. Bill C Like most military analysts, they look at best and worst case scenarios. Usually the reality comes out somewhere in between. You're amazing, and now might as well be quoting me. Thanks Bill C http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070422...s_070422204928 MOSCOW (AFP) - Iran on Sunday agreed on a plan to resolve a financing dispute with the Russian nuclear contractor building the country's first nuclear power plant, Russian news agencies reported, citing the company. AFP is easily the most balanced and accurate news bureau out there. AP and Reuters are horrible at best. Bill C |
#388
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OT Calling all Belgians
"Bill C" wrote in message
ups.com... On Apr 21, 10:25 am, Jack Hollis wrote: On 19 Apr 2007 17:06:55 -0700, Bill C wrote: Iran is prepared to cut off all traffic in the strait of Hormuz at a minimum: It's highly unlikely that they could do that. The pentagon thinks they can put a huge dent in it using small fast attack/suicide boats, fake civilian boats, and those nice hypersonic missiles the Russians have been selling them. http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/ne...muz-strait.htm http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n-gauntlet.htm http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=4005 http://www.iranmania.com/News/Articl...CurrentAffairs http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=6605 You're the only one I can find who doesn't think this would be a problem. Here's a hint Bill - the Pentagon is paid to be grim. It is their responsibility to be prepared for absolutely anything. After the endless prognostications about how much of a fight Saddam's army would put up, exactly how long did it take? There's no doubt that IF (and this is an almost unbelievable if) Iran decided to do something as stupid as try to close the Straits that they would offer some resistance for about 15 minutes. Within a couple of days there would be not a trace of an Iranian vessel left. For someone that was a lifer you sure don't seem to have a good handle on the differences between 19th century warfare and the 21st century. I'm sure that the commanding officer of those British sailors has been retired. A real CO would have been prepared for such an attach from the beginning and would have had helicopters ready to cover them instantly. Funny thing how gunships seem to keep the peace a great deal better than captives. |
#389
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OT Calling all Belgians
On Apr 23, 10:23 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
For someone that was a lifer you sure don't seem to have a good handle on the differences between 19th century warfare and the 21st century. I'm sure that the commanding officer of those British sailors has been retired. A real CO would have been prepared for such an attach from the beginning and would have had helicopters ready to cover them instantly. Funny thing how gunships seem to keep the peace a great deal better than captives.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Do you know what asymetrical warfare is? We aren't controlling Iraq, or Afghanistan. Hamas is stronger than ever, as is Hizbullah. Our only option would be an extended air campaign. Congress wouldn't fund it, and has no stomach for any more fighting. They don't give a flying **** how big the genocide is after we abandon another ally. The same organizations and people got away with it once, and still pat themselves on the back about it despite the disaster it caused for millions. It aint gonna happen. Iran is going to go nuclear. The majority of Europe in polls see no problem with this, and our Democrats really don't care. They'd actually like to see it so they could blame it on failed Republican diplomacy. They have already killed any slim chance in Iraq by appeasing Syria, Hizbullah, Iran and the rest by reaching out to them "To open a dialogue". When was the last time one of these asswipes were willing to take a stand other than protesting here where it's safe while other people die and they do nothing effective? They are determined to make Al-Sadr the greatest Islamic leader since the Ottoman Empire was strong. They are playing short sighted politics with a long term disaster. Lebanon is viewed in the Arab world as a victory for Hizbullah and Iran against Israel. Al- Sadr is defeating the US by staying alive, powerful, and forcing us to run with our tail tucked. Bush and Co. are ****ing idiots for getting us into this mess, and as usual the Democrats are looking for someone to surrender to and make a huge anti-US hero. We have the ability to destroy Irans infrasructure, thus losing the oil, and setting off massive unconventional retaliation on several fronts. The Pentagon is well aware of this and it's why they keep telling Bush and the boys NOT to **** with Iran. We don't have the troops to deal with our current commitments let alone the mess that would explode. There is NO good long term solution at this point. Pray for containment, and deal with a massively strengthened, more militant, and agressive Islamic extremist world. I have no idea why any country would ally with the US given our sorry record of screwing them over and bailing on them. We've screwed the French, Brits, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Burmese, etc...and thats after WW2. Hope you sleep well with the pipe dreams of the US being able to do whatever it wants, wherever it wants, whenever it wants militarily in todays world. Here's a start on understanding what's going on today: http://www.d-n-i.net/second_level/fo...on_warfare.htm If this doesn't start you on the road to understanding the mess we're in I don't know what will. I'm negative because I think I can read the direction our leadership is moving, and I DO understand the current military strategic climate. We needed to make Afghanistan a huge success, both militarily which we did, and economically which we abandoned to go to Iraq. It told the whole Arab street that our promises weren't worth the toilet paper that Crow now says was a joke. There is absolutely NO reason for anyone to work with us now, and the people who did are being killed for it , and going to be slaughtered, again after we abandon them. Times like this I'm disgusted with what our politicians have done to this country, and seem to plan on continuing to do. Bill C |
#390
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OT More Pentagon lies and mismanagement
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/...rss_topstories Quoted: WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The last soldier to see Army Ranger Pat Tillman alive, Spc. Bryan O'Neal, told lawmakers that he was warned by superiors not to divulge -- especially to the Tillman family -- that a fellow soldier killed Tillman. O'Neal particularly wanted to tell fellow soldier Kevin Tillman, who was in the convoy traveling behind his brother at the time of the 2004 incident in Afghanistan. "I wanted right off the bat to let the family know what had happened, especially Kevin, because I worked with him in a platoon and I knew that he and the family all needed to know what had happened," O'Neal testified. "I was quite appalled that when I was actually able to speak with Kevin, I was ordered not to tell him." http://tinyurl.com/2v3xw8 WASHINGTON - The Air Force's top general expressed frustration on Tuesday with the reassignment of troops under his command to ground jobs for which they were not trained, ranging from guarding prisoners to driving trucks and typing. Gen. Michael Moseley, the Air Force chief of staff, said that over 20,000 airmen have been assigned worldwide into roles outside their specialties. The destruction of our military, which does actually work for the people of the US, and is us, especially the average stiff, is going to be one of the lasting legacies of this administration. The best and brightest from the service acadamies are opting out at an unprecedented rate. Any General Officer who disagreed was run out on a rail and given early retirement, or a career ending posting. Once again we have more examples of the indefensible. This administration's lieing, propagandandizing, sleazeball, criminal, at least morally, behavior is astounding for people who claim to support and care about the military. Bill C |
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