Best way to measure Watts-

wrote:

These are people I have ridden with for years, so yes, they got a
powermeter, tested themselves, and in subsequent years, tested better.
It could be other things of course, but for me, I got a lot better at
training and knowing how to train because of the feedback the
powermeter gives me. I have concrete goals to shoot for.

The original poster should get a powermeter. It makes people train
better. If you don't agree, that's ok. I know it's fun for simpletons
to take the contrarian position.


Listen to me and listen to me good. The original poster should
absolutely NOT get a power meter. He doesn't need a glass of milk. He
needs to learn how to milk a cow.

Magilla

Bob Schwartz wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

cycledogg wrote:

I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee



You are better off setting aside that $2-3,000 for spare tires and
parts. A power meter won't help you get better and it's very unlikely
the rate limiting factor in your training is 'knowledge' of your power.

Power meters are the lastest fad for a lot of morons and 150-mile/week
cyclists who micromanage their on-bike training and think they're
training scientifically.

In reality, most of your limitations in maximimizing your fitness are
going to be things like money, free time, rest time, daily stress from
your job/school, genetics, diet, etc..

In order to justify the cost of a power meter, it means you have all
these other things under control, which you don't.

So I recommend you put that money into other things that will help
your fitness more than a power meter.

Magilla


I used a PowerTap to show that it is possible to
simultaneously cut power and accelerate in a velodrome
turn.

Bob Schwartz



Hey Joker,

Bearing in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, where does
this extra energy come from?

You sound like someone who has submitted multiple patent applications
for a perpetual motion machine to the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office in
Washington D.C.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

cycledogg wrote:

I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee



You are better off setting aside that $2-3,000 for spare tires and
parts. A power meter won't help you get better and it's very
unlikely the rate limiting factor in your training is 'knowledge' of
your power.

Power meters are the lastest fad for a lot of morons and
150-mile/week cyclists who micromanage their on-bike training and
think they're training scientifically.

In reality, most of your limitations in maximimizing your fitness are
going to be things like money, free time, rest time, daily stress
from your job/school, genetics, diet, etc..

In order to justify the cost of a power meter, it means you have all
these other things under control, which you don't.

So I recommend you put that money into other things that will help
your fitness more than a power meter.

Magilla


I used a PowerTap to show that it is possible to
simultaneously cut power and accelerate in a velodrome
turn.

Bob Schwartz



Hey Joker,

Bearing in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, where does
this extra energy come from?

You sound like someone who has submitted multiple patent applications
for a perpetual motion machine to the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office in
Washington D.C.

Magilla


Hopefully the physics mavens can chime in--it has to do with angular
momentum, but I'm pretty sure Bob is right--of course if power isn't
added then there will be a marked deceleration coming out of the turn.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

wrote:

On Dec 3, 11:27 am, MagillaGorilla wrote:

cycledogg wrote:

I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee

You are better off setting aside that $2-3,000 for spare tires and
parts. A power meter won't help you get better and it's very unlikely
the rate limiting factor in your training is 'knowledge' of your power.


As painful as it is, I have to agree with Magilla. Unless you're a Cat
1 or better the only thing you'll get from a power meter is an empty
wallet. Improved training techniques by hiring a good coach would
improve you a great deal better and faster. Talk to Adam Meyerson.


See, everyone eventually sticks a weary hand through the cage to give
the gorilla a banana.


Magilla

Listen to me and listen to me good. The original poster should
absolutely NOT get a power meter. He doesn't need a glass of milk. He
needs to learn how to milk a cow.

We think the same thing.

Having a powermeter, and learning about the body because training is
suddenly more interesting and rewarding, and seeing what results you
get from your training, and learning why you got dropped in a race,
and learning that you needed to train more by monitoring your CTL, and
realizing you weren't fresh because you didn't letup before that big
race enough, and seeing that after 3 hours of racing your power is way
down and your heart rate is up, and maybe you were dehydrated, so next
time you drink more and examine THAT file and see how you did.

Powermeters are IN MY OPINION, the best way to start really learning
about how to train. It unlocks a whole new world of information, and
yes, you can be a dope and do nothing with it, or you can use your
intelligence, willingness to learn, and curiosity and dig in.

On Dec 3, 7:45 pm, cycledogg wrote:
I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee

One thing that I realised when I was deciding whether to buy a power
meter is that the technology is not yet mature, that is, it is quite
likely that, independent of manufacturer, this piece of equipment will
probably not work perfectly and will require a lot of technical work.
For example, even without any other problem, you have to routinely
send the SRM back for calibration, and apart from removing and
installing cranks, who has an extra pair lying around?

With that in mind, I chose the PowerTap because it was accurate, much
cheaper than SRM, and there weren't any wires (I had already
previously ripped wires from 2 speedometers and didn't want to live
through that again). So far, it has worked flawlessly, except for
downloading. After many hours with Saris support, the download cradle
was finally identified as the culprit. 4 months later, downloading is
still not working smoothly, so they are sending me my 4th (!!) cradle
and 2nd CPU. Even though this may look bad, it does show that they are
extremely committed to supporting their product. Once I got to the
right department at Saris, everything went very well. I was quite wary
of SRM, since they never even responded to an e-mail question, which I
sent to test their customer support.

Hopefully, the situation will change with when Quarq and Garmin come
out with their wireless units, which will work with SRM or with the
Quarq sensor. For now, it seems to me that PowerTap is best suited for
training, SRM is probably better for racing, given all the different
wheels you need to use, and also because it works well for the track.

-ilan

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
MagillaGorilla wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

cycledogg wrote:

I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee



You are better off setting aside that $2-3,000 for spare tires and
parts. A power meter won't help you get better and it's very
unlikely the rate limiting factor in your training is 'knowledge' of
your power.

Power meters are the lastest fad for a lot of morons and
150-mile/week cyclists who micromanage their on-bike training and
think they're training scientifically.

In reality, most of your limitations in maximimizing your fitness
are going to be things like money, free time, rest time, daily
stress from your job/school, genetics, diet, etc..

In order to justify the cost of a power meter, it means you have all
these other things under control, which you don't.

So I recommend you put that money into other things that will help
your fitness more than a power meter.

Magilla


I used a PowerTap to show that it is possible to
simultaneously cut power and accelerate in a velodrome
turn.

Bob Schwartz



Hey Joker,

Bearing in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, where does
this extra energy come from?

You sound like someone who has submitted multiple patent applications
for a perpetual motion machine to the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office
in Washington D.C.

Magilla


Hopefully the physics mavens can chime in--it has to do with angular
momentum, but I'm pretty sure Bob is right--of course if power isn't
added then there will be a marked deceleration coming out of the turn.

Steve


http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/schwartzpursuit.png

My very own Chung Chart. Coggan provides a good explanation.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...165fe820602ef4

Bob Schwartz

On Dec 3, 10:45 am, cycledogg wrote:
I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?

Corrections for systematic errors can be applied, and good results can
be had, but intuitively: If you want to measure power at the hub, buy
a hub sensed meter. If you want to measure power at the crank, buy a
crank sensed meter.

But my primate friend is largely correct. If you've got the 99% of
conditioning extracted from your body (which requires only a bike,
time, and willpower), then you can think of dropping your bucks on a
power meter, if "high" priced gadgets are your thing, and that last 1%
is important to you.

Remember that most races where you will (or have had) a reasonable
shot at winning will be lost because of some bad split-second decision
you make (made), not your power output. /When/ you put out power is
more important than /how much/, for that first 99% of conditioning,
and that requires no gadgets, but simple experience and judicious
reflection.

On the other hand, if you simply like gadgets, then by all means buy
one. Don't get wireless -- there will be a built-in error of a few
percent due to background radiation from the big bang. I think using
energy from the big bang must be against UCI regulations. The UCI is
sort of like the pope, you know. I don't know what happens around
corners though. There is knife-edge diffraction on sharp corners, and
you might slow down.

Personally, I just listen to Highway Star before leaving on rides. It
does 99% of what can be done.

On 3 Dec, 18:45, cycledogg wrote:
I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee

You are really not interested in accuracy. You are interested in
consistency if you want it at all.

If you buy something that says 250W when you're putting out 200, but
it does it consistently, you'll get the same training benefit of
always knowing how hard you're working (that's relative to your AT
anyway, and you'll have measured that with the same power meter..).

That said, they are so damn expensive - and you do most of your riding
on the same roads, and then you know pretty well how your speed and
power output correspond. Speedo costs about 1/50th of a power meter...
no contest.

Pete

wrote:
Listen to me and listen to me good. The original poster should
absolutely NOT get a power meter. He doesn't need a glass of milk. He
needs to learn how to milk a cow.


We think the same thing.

Having a powermeter, and learning about the body because training is
suddenly more interesting and rewarding, and seeing what results you
get from your training, and learning why you got dropped in a race,
and learning that you needed to train more by monitoring your CTL, and
realizing you weren't fresh because you didn't letup before that big
race enough, and seeing that after 3 hours of racing your power is way
down and your heart rate is up, and maybe you were dehydrated, so next
time you drink more and examine THAT file and see how you did.

Powermeters are IN MY OPINION, the best way to start really learning
about how to train. It unlocks a whole new world of information, and
yes, you can be a dope and do nothing with it, or you can use your
intelligence, willingness to learn, and curiosity and dig in.


Interpreting power meter data is complex and beyond the scope of most
people, includiing trainers.

You don't need a power meter to ride a bike, race or bike, or get
better. Having one is just another expensive thing that breaks when you
crash.

The money can be better spent on tires and spare parts. A power meter
will not help you go faster because most people don't know how to
interpet the data anyway.

Magilla