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Best way to measure Watts-



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 4th 07, 12:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mark & Steven Bornfeld
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Posts: 439
Default Best way to measure Watts-

Bob Schwartz wrote:

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/schwartzpursuit.png

My very own Chung Chart. Coggan provides a good explanation.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...165fe820602ef4

Bob Schwartz



Thanks Bob!

Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
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  #22  
Old December 4th 07, 01:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
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Posts: 2,668
Default Best way to measure Watts-

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

Bob Schwartz wrote:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

cycledogg wrote:

I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee




You are better off setting aside that $2-3,000 for spare tires and
parts. A power meter won't help you get better and it's very
unlikely the rate limiting factor in your training is 'knowledge'
of your power.

Power meters are the lastest fad for a lot of morons and
150-mile/week cyclists who micromanage their on-bike training and
think they're training scientifically.

In reality, most of your limitations in maximimizing your fitness
are going to be things like money, free time, rest time, daily
stress from your job/school, genetics, diet, etc..

In order to justify the cost of a power meter, it means you have
all these other things under control, which you don't.

So I recommend you put that money into other things that will help
your fitness more than a power meter.

Magilla



I used a PowerTap to show that it is possible to
simultaneously cut power and accelerate in a velodrome
turn.

Bob Schwartz




Hey Joker,

Bearing in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, where
does this extra energy come from?

You sound like someone who has submitted multiple patent applications
for a perpetual motion machine to the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office
in Washington D.C.

Magilla




Hopefully the physics mavens can chime in--it has to do with
angular momentum, but I'm pretty sure Bob is right--of course if power
isn't added then there will be a marked deceleration coming out of the
turn.

Steve


http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/schwartzpursuit.png

My very own Chung Chart. Coggan provides a good explanation.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...165fe820602ef4

Bob Schwartz




Physics 101: Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from
one form to another.

So unless someone in here is Einstein and wants to change the
understanding of modern physics with a new theory on the conservation of
energy, I think it's safe to conclude there is no energy (or speed) gain.

I don't need to ask anyone else's opinion.

You can't gain speed or energy in a turn. Any speed gain you get from
your initial lean into a turn MUST BE lost (plus some) while exiting
that same turn because it takes longer (and more energy) to bring
yourself upright and raise yourself than it would had you ridden that
same distance on a straightaway and never had to lean up or down to
begin with.

On a straightaway, that same energy is put into the pedals. You are
losing substantial amounts of energy in a turn via friction.

Nothing is free in energy equations.


Magilla
  #23  
Old December 4th 07, 01:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ted van de Weteringe
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Posts: 966
Default Best way to measure Watts-

SLAVE of THE STATE schreef:
Don't get wireless -- there will be a built-in error of a few
percent due to background radiation from the big bang.


Only for the first three minutes of the race.
  #25  
Old December 4th 07, 02:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 67
Default Best way to measure Watts-

Interpreting power meter data is complex and beyond the scope of most
people, includiing trainers.


That's just not true.

You just earned yourself an invitation to the powermeter file reading
interpretation camp I'm putting on United Center. See you there 7
p.m. this Friday.

  #26  
Old December 4th 07, 07:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default Best way to measure Watts-

wrote:
Interpreting power meter data is complex and beyond the scope of most
people, includiing trainers.



That's just not true.

You just earned yourself an invitation to the powermeter file reading
interpretation camp I'm putting on United Center. See you there 7
p.m. this Friday.



That time you spend discussing power meter data would be better spent
resting or training.

The most important thing cyclists need to have to improve is motivation
and happiness. Both of those depend on things like financial stability,
job happiness, relationship stress, etc. A power meter doesn't even
make the list.

And to sit here and talk about power meter data in a vacuum as a
function of traiining comes across as incredibly shallow.

There is NOBODY who works a 9-5 job or goes to college and can honestly
claim a power meter will help them more than simply training more or
resting more or being happy more or eating better.

One can accomplish the same thing as a power meter using nothing but
timed intervals up the same climb. You don't need a $2,500 power meter
to figure out your fitness.

If you want to micromanage your cycling training to the point where
you're staring at $2,500 graphs after 6 hour training rides, then you
need to lighten the **** up before you turn into a Jeff Evanshine headcase.


Magilla
  #27  
Old December 4th 07, 09:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro
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Posts: 4,811
Default Best way to measure Watts-

MagillaGorilla wrote:
So I recommend you put that money into other things that will help your
fitness more than a power meter.


Dumbass,
Perhaps if you got a power meter you'd be faster around turns.

  #28  
Old December 4th 07, 02:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
bdbafh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 232
Default Best way to measure Watts-

On Dec 3, 7:07 pm, MagillaGorilla wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:


MagillaGorilla wrote:


Bob Schwartz wrote:


MagillaGorilla wrote:


cycledogg wrote:


I am considering getting into using watts measured for training this
season. Which is the best or most accurate way to measure, Powermeter
from the rear hub or SRM from the crank?
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Rick in Tennessee


You are better off setting aside that $2-3,000 for spare tires and
parts. A power meter won't help you get better and it's very
unlikely the rate limiting factor in your training is 'knowledge'
of your power.


Power meters are the lastest fad for a lot of morons and
150-mile/week cyclists who micromanage their on-bike training and
think they're training scientifically.


In reality, most of your limitations in maximimizing your fitness
are going to be things like money, free time, rest time, daily
stress from your job/school, genetics, diet, etc..


In order to justify the cost of a power meter, it means you have
all these other things under control, which you don't.


So I recommend you put that money into other things that will help
your fitness more than a power meter.


Magilla


I used a PowerTap to show that it is possible to
simultaneously cut power and accelerate in a velodrome
turn.


Bob Schwartz


Hey Joker,


Bearing in mind that energy cannot be created or destroyed, where
does this extra energy come from?


You sound like someone who has submitted multiple patent applications
for a perpetual motion machine to the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office
in Washington D.C.


Magilla


Hopefully the physics mavens can chime in--it has to do with
angular momentum, but I'm pretty sure Bob is right--of course if power
isn't added then there will be a marked deceleration coming out of the
turn.


Steve


http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/schwartzpursuit.png


My very own Chung Chart. Coggan provides a good explanation.


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...165fe820602ef4


Bob Schwartz


Physics 101: Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from
one form to another.

So unless someone in here is Einstein and wants to change the
understanding of modern physics with a new theory on the conservation of
energy, I think it's safe to conclude there is no energy (or speed) gain.

I don't need to ask anyone else's opinion.

You can't gain speed or energy in a turn. Any speed gain you get from
your initial lean into a turn MUST BE lost (plus some) while exiting
that same turn because it takes longer (and more energy) to bring
yourself upright and raise yourself than it would had you ridden that
same distance on a straightaway and never had to lean up or down to
begin with.

On a straightaway, that same energy is put into the pedals. You are
losing substantial amounts of energy in a turn via friction.

Nothing is free in energy equations.

Magilla



Nothing is free in energy equations.


Gibbs energy is occasionally free, but that would head off the highway
of Newtonian mechanics and over into chemistry, which would probably
lead to the dark side ...

-bdbafh
  #29  
Old December 4th 07, 03:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,811
Default Best way to measure Watts-

bdbafh wrote:
Gibbs energy is occasionally free, but that would head off the highway of
Newtonian mechanics and over into chemistry, which would probably lead to
the dark side ...


If its a free lunch its probably andoulette.
  #30  
Old December 4th 07, 03:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bob Schwartz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,060
Default Best way to measure Watts-

MagillaGorilla wrote:
Physics 101:


Dumbass,

You mean Geometry 101, don't you. The largest effect
has nothing to do with physics.

Bob Schwartz
 




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