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#121
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Training or Plain Riding?
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:10:21 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote: On Dec 11, 6:31*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:03:23 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 3:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure. What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure? Nonsense. If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem is much less, but still there is this chance. Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge *in the metal? And is eventually developing a stress fracture and breaking the same as sudden failure? One can similar degrees of damage which appears harmless on steel yet on a composite frame can cause it to fail. You can crash with a carbon fiber handlebar and it appears safe. Yet a few weeks later busts. With steel and aluminum the material is more ductile so it is more forgiving. So ,what about the question about if you would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge *in the metal? |
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#122
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Training or Plain Riding?
On Dec 11, 11:22*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:10:21 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 6:31*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:03:23 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 3:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure. What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure? Nonsense. If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem is much less, but still there is this chance. Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge *in the metal? And is eventually developing a stress fracture and breaking the same as sudden failure? One can similar degrees of damage which appears harmless on *steel yet on a composite frame can cause it to fail. You can crash with a carbon fiber handlebar and it appears safe. Yet a few weeks later busts. With steel and aluminum the material is more ductile so it is more forgiving. So ,what about the question about if you would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge *in the metal? A fork can withstand a lot of damage and still be safe. I have straightened and realigned forks and they had no problems. This you could never do with a composite frame. |
#123
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Training or Plain Riding?
hizark21 wrote:
On Dec 11, 11:22 am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:10:21 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 6:31 am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:03:23 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 3:49 am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure. What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure? Nonsense. If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem is much less, but still there is this chance. Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge in the metal? And is eventually developing a stress fracture and breaking the same as sudden failure? One can similar degrees of damage which appears harmless on steel yet on a composite frame can cause it to fail. You can crash with a carbon fiber handlebar and it appears safe. Yet a few weeks later busts. With steel and aluminum the material is more ductile so it is more forgiving. So ,what about the question about if you would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge in the metal? A fork can withstand a lot of damage and still be safe. I have straightened and realigned forks and they had no problems. This you could never do with a composite frame. Allow me to rephrase the question. Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge in the metal? Bob Schwartz |
#124
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Training or Plain Riding?
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:36:02 -0800 (PST), hizark21
wrote: On Dec 11, 11:22*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:10:21 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 6:31*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:03:23 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: On Dec 11, 3:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:44:20 -0800 (PST), hizark21 wrote: Carbon fiber is still prone to delamination and sudden failure. What does this mean?Are you saying the many, many bikes being ridden now by racers are "prone" to sudden failure? Nonsense. If you have a deep nick, gouge or crash on a carbon fiber frame then there is the chance that the frame could eventually develop a stress facture and break. With unidirectional stress weave cloth this problem is much less, but still there is this chance. Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge *in the metal? And is eventually developing a stress fracture and breaking the same as sudden failure? One can similar degrees of damage which appears harmless on *steel yet on a composite frame can cause it to fail. You can crash with a carbon fiber handlebar and it appears safe. Yet a few weeks later busts. With steel and aluminum the material is more ductile so it is more forgiving. So ,what about the question about if you would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge *in the metal? A fork can withstand a lot of damage and still be safe. I have straightened and realigned forks and they had no problems. This you could never do with a composite frame. So, what about the question of if you would ride a steel fork with a deep nick or gouge in the metal? |
#125
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Training or Plain Riding?
hizark21 wrote:
A fork can withstand a lot of damage and still be safe. I have straightened and realigned forks and they had no problems. This you could never do with a composite frame. A fork can withstand a lot of damage and be on the verge of failure. I don't straighten or realign damaged forks because forks are cheap to replace relative to the value I place on the skin on my ass. Seriously. I used to ride stuff until failure, and after a enough failures I came to the conclusion that that wasn't a smart thing to do. Bob Schwartz |
#126
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Training or Plain Riding?
On Dec 11, 6:33*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:25:32 -0600, Bob Schwartz wrote: I've broken my share of frames and forks, all of them were factory produced steel. In spite of my own personal experience I would never recommend people avoid steel. I had a ti frame break. *Bike break. *One of the top (in terms of quality) manufacturers of steel bikes in the country -- probably the guy who influences the person Bill C mentioned -- said to me "Bikes break. Mine can break. *Well designed bikes don't break much and mine sure don't, but they can." Dumbass - No matter how technologically advanced the materials of bicycles become there will always be frames/parts that fail because of the premium placed upon light weight. The frames/parts will always be engineered to be as light as possible up to the point of an "accepted" failure rate (whatever that may be). thanks, K. Gringioni. |
#127
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Training or Plain Riding?
On Dec 11, 2:05*pm, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
No matter how technologically advanced the materials of bicycles become there will always be frames/parts that fail because of the premium placed upon light weight. The frames/parts will always be engineered to be as light as possible up to the point of an "accepted" failure rate (whatever that may be). As an aside: when we did that trip over the Andes, we used low end steel mtb frames because they were not engineered for lightness. Nothing broke. We were passed along the way by this Swiss freak who was doing a 6 month Prudhoe Bay Alaska to Tierra del Fuego trip. He had some top of the line racks which had to be repaired in Central America by welding rebar to the failed members. Highperformance/lightweight = greater incidence of failure. |
#128
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Training or Plain Riding?
"Bill C" wrote in message
... Once again JT you went straight to the not up to current info, being played by the evil Svengali Rasputin steel bike builder attack mode. Upon further review you really do seem to be a miserable human being. You've tap danced all over the issue here. First carbon stuff doesn't break, then nothing recent breaks, then you challenge me to show it to you, and when I do you blow it off. Typical. The strange thing is that JT went from one of the most honest and well respected members of this group to one of the looniest and least respected. I don't quite follow what caused his dramatic about face. |
#129
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Training or Plain Riding?
"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message
... hizark21 wrote: A fork can withstand a lot of damage and still be safe. I have straightened and realigned forks and they had no problems. This you could never do with a composite frame. Allow me to rephrase the question. Dude, would you ride a steel fork with deep nick or gouge in the metal? I see it pretty often. And as hizark pointed out - steel forks were commonly bent out of shape, re-straightened and used for thousands of miles with no ill effects. You cannot do that with composite forks. |
#130
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Training or Plain Riding?
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
some top of the line racks which had to be repaired Rack repair man, now there's a career idea. |
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