What would you do?

On Jan 8, 9:09*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article
,





wrote:
On Jan 8, 2:23*pm, Carl Sundquist wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 7, 7:05 pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 7, 11:48 am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

On Jan 6, 11:21 pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 6, 9:05 pm, wrote:
Also, an iceberg might loom up out of nowhere
and you could crash and sink.
Generally, good steels don't have ductile-to-brittle
transition temperatures above 0 C, and often well
below. *Common aluminum alloys don't have a DBTT.
Some types of stainless steel don't have a DBTT
either. *I don't know what type of stainless steel
cables are made from.
People drive trucks and fly planes in Antarctica.
You can't be stupid about that, but it works. *It's not
like any cold you can tolerate riding in will cause
your bike to snap in half while JRA.
My biggest worry about temperature cycles
would be their effect on glues. *One of those bonded
carbon-aluminum frames might not be the best
choice for daily cycles from a 65 deg F house to
20 deg F ride and back. *(Or a 65 deg house to
120 deg heat for that matter.) *On the other hand, I'm
sure there are quite a few people who have done this
and haven't broken anything yet.
Dumbass,
I heard tell that the "first" steel hulled ships were prone to sinking
cuz the steel cracked in cold waters.
I don't know what that means in context, just take it as an anecdote.
Dumbass,

Yeah, sort of. *This was apparently a problem not
understood until Liberty ships sank for unexplained
reasons during WWII. *Some mild structural steels
have a DBTT above freezing and their strength is
significantly weakened. *However, there also were
other contributing factors - on the Liberty ships,
overloading, fatigue and crack nucleation from stress
concentrations (I don't think that was understood until
after the postwar failures of the Comet airplane) and
cracking along welds.

Bicycle frames are made out of stronger steel and
while DBTT varies a lot for different steel alloys,
I don't think it is plausible that normal winter use
will cause frame failures. *Aluminum alloys, as noted,
do not have a ductile-brittle transition.

There is a persistent legend that the reason the Titanic
sank was embrittlement of poor quality steel. *I looked
this up before posting. *This does not seem to be the case:
the Titanic's hull mostly failed at riveted joints and plates
had ductile failures rather than outright snapping. *It was
actually made out of *fairly good steel for its day. *Steel
embrittlement was an issue, but more important problems
were micro crack initiation at the punched rivet holes
(later, rules changed to demand drilling instead) and
failure of the wrought iron rivets, probably exacerbated
by cold. *Also, running full steam into a huge ****ing iceberg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty...llurgy.nist..g.....
.
esp. pages 13, 20-25 and Figure 4

This is actually why I made the joke about getting
sunk by a looming iceberg while riding.

Ben- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the bike was tange cromoly tubes as I recall; it didn't quite fall
appart or snap as some people here are trying to conjecture; it just
developed a crack near the head tube that I observed while cleaning
after a very cold day (-20c); I'm a real neat-freak when it comes to
my bikes so if it had occured earlier I would've noticed. But are you
saying aluminum is less susceptable to extreme cold ? hmmm, I recall
noticing cracks along the weld of my syncros alum. stem also while
cleaning during an exterme winter and I also had a large 3in crescent
wrench snap on me whole working outdoors in northern alberta in the
winter ( I think it was stamped alum). I wouldn't think moderately
cold temps would affect the brittleness of metal so severely, but my
own experience tells me to be careful when it gets really cold.

Raamman,

-20c temps was not in the context of the original post or thread. It was
training rides with one shoe cover missing. People don't normally do
that in -20c temps. You should have clarified that you were referring to
temperatures that cold.

Regardless, riding in those temperatures is not a guarantee of metal
failure. My brother lives in Madison, WI and has ridden his bike to work
every day through the past two winters (although it is only a 2 mile
distance) with nary a failure of that nature.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

everyone could've clarified or more fully defined all the parameters
at the outset - but we tend to speak in terms of generalities and
without regard to or awareness of what factors are mitigating
importance. it doesn't matter- we don't know what we can learn without
asking questions. I realize the 0c is irrelevant to steel - and the
car analogy is a very good point to illustrate that; I just worry a
bit more riding chinese alum in the boonies during the winter and my
wife is hopeless navigating if I need an emergency pick up.

I think you worry about the wrong things.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

you don't know my wife, sometimes she has trouble finding the door

Paul G. wrote:
As I recall, it was my eyeballs that really suffered on the descent to
Aspen.

Just keep your eyes closed.

Michael Press wrote:
I do _not_. Starbucks. Sausalito. Friday noon.

I didn't know you had any purple cycling clothing.

In article
,
wrote:

On Jan 8, 9:09*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article
,

wrote:

everyone could've clarified or more fully defined all the parameters
at the outset - but we tend to speak in terms of generalities and
without regard to or awareness of what factors are mitigating
importance. it doesn't matter- we don't know what we can learn without
asking questions. I realize the 0c is irrelevant to steel - and the
car analogy is a very good point to illustrate that; I just worry a
bit more riding chinese alum in the boonies during the winter and my
wife is hopeless navigating if I need an emergency pick up.

I think you worry about the wrong things.

you don't know my wife, sometimes she has trouble finding the door

Heh.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Michael Press wrote:

Truckers who work 0 deg F and below must be careful
when hammering away at balky hardware. It can break
where it will not at higher temperatures.


The next time I'm out on a training ride at 0 degrees F I'll have to
remember not to "hammer" too hard


Bill

Carl Sundquist wrote:

I can't help it if people don't read in context.

Well, OK. I'll settle for you fixing the bit where people THINK in
context, then.