Don't make Lance Mad

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" a écrit dans le
message de :
...

I rather doubt that Lance supporters could realistically be said to be
more fanatical than the tifosi.

Did you think there is a difference in the linguistic meanings ? More is
not required, once you cross the threshhold of fanaticism, into fantasy.
(follow the bouncing ball...)

The 800 lb. elephant in the room than no one is acknowledgeing is that
Lance is almost certainly a surrogate target for European citizens angry
at U.S. political and military policy. While this is understandable
(and probably unavoidable) this part of the Lance antipathy is unfair to
him.

Fair !?!? Does this mean that there are no US citizens who have the same
political orientation ? What you can't seem to grasp, is that we aren't
really more stupid than your co-citizens.

Fair!?!? He is selling his nationality which entails an immediate
connection to the realpolitik of that nation. Don't use the USPS backing,
or national identity, and you'd see less harassment, politically. You don't
see (even in this forum) any sense that people root against Hamilton,
Hincapie, Landis, etc., etc., just because they're Americans. If it's
directed at Armstrong, in Europe, it's directed personally at him. And
that's fair or not, according to what you may wish to believe, or the values
that your cherish.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Paris FR

"gooserider" wrote in message
.. .

"Chris" wrote in message
. ..

"Jiyang Chen" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
. ..

That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a
few
moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that
spit at
me.
But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.

I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

1) Quit
2) Use it as motivation

Obviously Lance used #2.

Obviously you missed a lot of other choices.

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:


Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews
from
the Nazis.

Are you referring to the Anne Frank myth?

Kyle Legate wrote:

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:


Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews
from
the Nazis.


Are you referring to the Anne Frank myth?




Well, there's a lot more than that. I have known Jews from the
Netherlands whose families were sheltered during the war.
Not to discount the layers of schmaltz on the story, why would you
refer to the Anne Frank story as a "myth"?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

The 800 lb. elephant in the room than no one is acknowledgeing is that
Lance is almost certainly a surrogate target for European citizens angry

By the way, an 800-lb elephant is quite small. Typically a 1-year old
male African elephant is 1000lbs.

Lest this get personal ...

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" wrote in message
...

Fair !?!? Does this mean that there are no US citizens who have the
same
political orientation ? What you can't seem to grasp, is that we aren't
really more stupid than your co-citizens.

Who's this we?

I find it hard to believe that you are not aware of 95% of the planet's
population that is not part of the US.

Fair!?!? He is selling his nationality which entails an immediate
connection to the realpolitik of that nation.


Well, fair enough. He doesn't ride for the French Postal Service,
after all. Neither does he ride for the George W. Bush 2004 Re-election
campaign team.

Distinguish first the rider from the man. Then distinguish the rider's
team's sponsor. Would you be saying that he is not peddling [my own "sic"]
America's team, even though its membership (not to mention Berry Floor)
doesn't make that real ?

Don't use the USPS backing,
or national identity, and you'd see less harassment, politically. You
don't
see (even in this forum) any sense that people root against Hamilton,
Hincapie, Landis, etc., etc., just because they're Americans. If it's
directed at Armstrong, in Europe, it's directed personally at him. And
that's fair or not, according to what you may wish to believe, or the
values
that your cherish.

Well, you always aim at the guy at the top.
BTW Sandy, I've not encountered first hand the kind of reflexive
hostility to me as an American from any Frenchman before--I've always
been treated with kindness, and an easy ability and willingness to
accept me as an individual, and not a surrogate for some military action
they don't approve of.

Try to understand : I write nothing against you personally - I don't know
you. I write to put forth different ideas than you express. Were you
Angolese, but wrote the same, that would not find different treatment.

BTW, I am not a Bush supporter--not that it matters.

How true.


--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Paris FR

Stewart Fleming wrote:




The 800 lb. elephant in the room than no one is acknowledgeing is that
Lance is almost certainly a surrogate target for European citizens angry


By the way, an 800-lb elephant is quite small. Typically a 1-year old
male African elephant is 1000lbs.


Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe it's like the 300 lb gorilla and
the 2 ton elephant and we split the difference.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

SMMB wrote:

Lest this get personal ...



I find it hard to believe that you are not aware of 95% of the planet's
population that is not part of the US.


I won't quibble about the precise percentage. I just wondered that you
presume to speak for the rest of the world.


Fair!?!? He is selling his nationality which entails an immediate
connection to the realpolitik of that nation.


Well, fair enough. He doesn't ride for the French Postal Service,
after all. Neither does he ride for the George W. Bush 2004 Re-election
campaign team.


Distinguish first the rider from the man. Then distinguish the rider's
team's sponsor. Would you be saying that he is not peddling [my own "sic"]
America's team, even though its membership (not to mention Berry Floor)
doesn't make that real ?



I'm sure you have a point, but don't know (and little care) what it is.


Don't use the USPS backing,

or national identity, and you'd see less harassment, politically. You

don't

see (even in this forum) any sense that people root against Hamilton,
Hincapie, Landis, etc., etc., just because they're Americans. If it's
directed at Armstrong, in Europe, it's directed personally at him. And
that's fair or not, according to what you may wish to believe, or the

values

that your cherish.


Well, you always aim at the guy at the top.
BTW Sandy, I've not encountered first hand the kind of reflexive
hostility to me as an American from any Frenchman before--I've always
been treated with kindness, and an easy ability and willingness to
accept me as an individual, and not a surrogate for some military action
they don't approve of.


Try to understand : I write nothing against you personally - I don't know
you. I write to put forth different ideas than you express. Were you
Angolese, but wrote the same, that would not find different treatment.



Were I Angolese, I'd probably have more pressing matters than posting
in this newsgroup.

Steve


BTW, I am not a Bush supporter--not that it matters.


How true.




--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote in message ...
"gooserider" schreef in bericht
.. .

"Chris" wrote in message
. ..

"Jiyang Chen" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
. ..

That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a
few
moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that
spit at
me.
But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.

I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

1) Quit
2) Use it as motivation

Obviously Lance used #2.

There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove oneself
is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
don't really matter.

You are one gigantic Idiot.
How do you yourself, Jonathan, get motivated to race then?
If not, are you of the faith that "all are winners?"

-Ken

Jonathan.

The estimates for the number of Jews murdered during the holocaust is
(source Goldhagen's "Hitler's willing executioners"):

100K Netherlands
134-141.5K Germany.

so in proportion the number was much higher in the Netherlands

But proportionally the higherst numbers must have been:

2900K-3000K in Poland
550K-569K in Hungary.

My undertanding is that of the ones that were involved in the conflict
supporting or being invaded by the German army, only the Danish and the
Italians did not collaborate.

"Ewoud Dronkert" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:49:09 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
the Nazis.

Er, I think behind Germany itself, Holland the highest percentage of the
Jewish population deported, mainly because of efficient bureaucrats. Our
famous tolerance may have it roots in indifference.