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Hit gravel, broke leg



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 7th 05, 02:19 PM
Peter Clinch
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Jeff Grippe wrote:

Fun yes! I wouldn't give up my trikes for anything BUT they are not stable
at high speed (at least not the one's I've had a chance to ride at high
speed).


The Windcheetah used for the Lands End to John o'Groats distance record
in the UK was clocked at around 70 mph on some of the big descents on
the course (it was fully faired, btw). No reports of particular
instability AFAIK.

I learned this the hard way. I was going down a hill that would have been
nothing on a bike. The road was rough but nothing you would avoid. I was
going 25 MPH by the time I decided that I didn't like the way the trike was
handling. That is also the moment when I discovered that the effect of
brake-steer is magnified at high speed.


Folk regularly do *much* more than that on trikes, so it clearly isn't
intrinsic to trikes, period. Same thing with brake steer: it'll very
much be implementation dependent.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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  #12  
Old June 7th 05, 03:29 PM
Jeff Grippe
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"Buck" wrote in message
...

You should try the Catrike Speed, by the way this isn't a plug, well it is
but only because I have such high regard for them.


"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe wrote:

Fun yes! I wouldn't give up my trikes for anything BUT they are not
stable at high speed (at least not the one's I've had a chance to ride at
high speed).


The Windcheetah used for the Lands End to John o'Groats distance record in
the UK was clocked at around 70 mph on some of the big descents on the
course (it was fully faired, btw). No reports of particular instability
AFAIK.


I did a test ride on the Catrike. There was something about the steering
assembly that gave it a feel that I didn't like. On the same day I test rode
the Greenspeed, WizWheelz (3.4 version), Hase, Trice, and Sun trikes. I have
no idea how stable any of them are at high speeds because the 1 mile test
ride that I took didn't really have any place where I could get up to high
speeds. The Greenspeed was far and away my favorite. It was comfortable,
rode well, and I really like the use of the internal gears (on the 81 speed
version) to give you a low range that you could shift into while standing
still.

As for the WindCheetah, I own one (I have a "For Trade" posting in this NG).
It has kind of the opposite problem. The steering is so sensitive that there
is a control issue at high speed. Very little movement of the stick produces
a great deal of turning. On my very first test ride in a parking lot I
managed to do too tight a turn and have one wheel off the ground. The wheels
are also very close to my chubby legs. I'm not (yet) comfortable with
operating it above 25 MPH. It really is much more of a performance machine
that I actually need. No nibbles on the trade offer so I'll probably put
different size cogs on it and call it a keeper. There is virtually no brake
steer, however. I will probably get more comfortable with it over time.

Jeff


  #13  
Old June 7th 05, 05:22 PM
Buck
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On 06/07/2005 15:29:22 "Jeff Grippe" wrote:


As for the WindCheetah, I own one (I have a "For Trade" posting in this
NG). It has kind of the opposite problem. The steering is so sensitive
that there is a control issue at high speed. Very little movement of the
stick produces a great deal of turning. On my very first test ride in a
parking lot I managed to do too tight a turn and have one wheel off the
ground. The wheels are also very close to my chubby legs. I'm not (yet)
comfortable with operating it above 25 MPH. It really is much more of a
performance machine that I actually need. No nibbles on the trade offer
so I'll probably put different size cogs on it and call it a keeper.
There is virtually no brake steer, however. I will probably get more
comfortable with it over time.


Jeff


Maybe you should look at the new Catrike Road with indirect steering.

--
Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

www.catrike.co.uk
  #14  
Old June 8th 05, 03:29 AM
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Is an SWB any more likely than some other kind of 2-wheel bent (or a
wedgie) to lose control on a patch of gravel in the street? Opinions?
Experiences?


In my big SWB crash of last year, I went down due to severe rear wheel
wobble trying to brake downhill on poor pavement heading into a curve.
On a SWB, I have to be careful not to lock the rear wheel which is
more lightly loaded under braking downhill than the front.

In my big crash (so far) of this year, the front tire and tube blew
while going heavy on the front brake down a twisty 14% paved downgrade.
After last year's crash I was trying to focus on using the front
brake mostly and either due to a clincher tire or tube defect or due to
rim
heating there was a kaboom and down I went.

As undesirable as they have been (an average of one fall of any kind
per 2,000 miles), fortunately each time the fall distance has been short
with the only significant injury being road rash for the two cites
crashes.

One of my falls was when the short dirt road I was slowly going
down became soft sand. But with dual 1 1/4" tires is this really a
surprise? Now I watch for this condition like I have always kept an
eye out for potholes, etc. having a 20" front wheel. But on another ride
I rounded a corner on a paved bike path and hit slick mud washed
down the side bank across the path. I did skid big time but
while my mind based on past crashes thought about
bracing for falling over I was able to hold it and made it through
upright.
  #15  
Old June 8th 05, 03:34 AM
Edward Dolan
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"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe wrote:

Fun yes! I wouldn't give up my trikes for anything BUT they are not
stable at high speed (at least not the one's I've had a chance to ride at
high speed).


The Windcheetah used for the Lands End to John o'Groats distance record in
the UK was clocked at around 70 mph on some of the big descents on the
course (it was fully faired, btw). No reports of particular instability
AFAIK.

I learned this the hard way. I was going down a hill that would have been
nothing on a bike. The road was rough but nothing you would avoid. I was
going 25 MPH by the time I decided that I didn't like the way the trike
was handling. That is also the moment when I discovered that the effect
of brake-steer is magnified at high speed.


Folk regularly do *much* more than that on trikes, so it clearly isn't
intrinsic to trikes, period. Same thing with brake steer: it'll very much
be implementation dependent.

Pete.


Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about most
everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal
steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience and do
not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much better at
speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you keep your speed
reasonable.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota


  #16  
Old June 8th 05, 08:57 AM
Buck
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On 06/08/2005 03:34:58 "Edward Dolan" wrote:


Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about most
everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal
steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience and
do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much
better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you
keep your speed reasonable.


Regards,


Ed Dolan - Minnesota


LOL- Dolan the oracle, the world is ending.

--
Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

www.catrike.co.uk
  #17  
Old June 8th 05, 09:43 AM
Dave Larrington
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Edward Dolan wrote:

Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about
most everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due
to pedal steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own
experience and do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will
always handle much better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes
are OK provided you keep your speed reasonable.


But one doesn't get pedal steer when freewheeling... These days I'm a lot
happier to to do insane speeds on three wheels rather than two.

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Trike Vmax current 86 km/h


  #18  
Old June 8th 05, 10:35 AM
Jeff Grippe
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C'mon guys. This is all opinions and experience. Right and wrong aren't
really useful concepts here.

In my experience with trikes including the one that some people have had up
to 70 MPH, they don't handle well at high speed. Now I haven't tried every
trike out there at high speed and there could be some things I don't know
about riding them (yet!).

That having been said I will never go back to two wheels. I've been able to
climb things with my trike that I'm not sure I could walk up.

I don't know if any of the tadpoles are better than any other tadpoles at
high speed. I would guess that since the basic geometry is similar that they
have similar handling characteristics. Probably a really long wheel base and
wide front wheels would improve things. It would weigh a ton and be
impossible to transport but it would be stable.

Does anyone know if quads have the same stability problems?

Jeff
"Buck" wrote in message
...


On 06/08/2005 03:34:58 "Edward Dolan" wrote:


Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about
most
everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal
steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience
and
do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much
better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you
keep your speed reasonable.


Regards,


Ed Dolan - Minnesota


LOL- Dolan the oracle, the world is ending.

--
Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

www.catrike.co.uk



  #19  
Old June 8th 05, 10:45 AM
Buck
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On 06/08/2005 10:35:15 "Jeff Grippe" jeff@door7 wrote:

C'mon guys. This is all opinions and experience. Right and wrong aren't
really useful concepts here.


In my experience with trikes including the one that some people have had
up to 70 MPH, they don't handle well at high speed. Now I haven't tried
every trike out there at high speed and there could be some things I don't
know about riding them (yet!).


That having been said I will never go back to two wheels. I've been able
to climb things with my trike that I'm not sure I could walk up.


I don't know if any of the tadpoles are better than any other tadpoles at
high speed. I would guess that since the basic geometry is similar that
they have similar handling characteristics. Probably a really long wheel
base and wide front wheels would improve things. It would weigh a ton and
be impossible to transport but it would be stable.


Does anyone know if quads have the same stability problems?


Quads are usually very heavy, The steering issue with Catrike Speed stems from it having direct steering, the 2003 model did have a lot of pedal and brake steer but this has been dialed out with the new frame geometry, the Windcheetah likewise requires little steering input to affect large changes in course, the answer to that problem is experience.
You get pedal steer on two wheel bents as well as trikes, it is down to not having a smooth cadence, there are trikes around with slower steering, the Trice, Greenspeed and the new Catrike Road all use indirect steering for more touring orientated trikes and as such require more steering input to affect direction. I ride a Speed and often exceed 50mph with no problems at all and anyone who has ridden in England will tell you we do not have the best surfaces in the world, but I do have a huge mileage behind me.

--
Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

www.catrike.co.uk
  #20  
Old June 8th 05, 11:29 AM
DougC
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Ron Teplitz wrote:
I've gone over sideways four times in the 10 years that I've had my
Lightning Stealth. When an SWB's front wheel slides out, you go down
fast. Ususally I just get road rash on the forearm that hits the street.
The most recent time I did this, was going in a straight line at about
12 mph, rode into a small patch of gravel. Went down, landed badly and
broke a leg. Am re-evaluating my choice of bikes.

Is an SWB any more likely than some other kind of 2-wheel bent (or a
wedgie) to lose control on a patch of gravel in the street? Opinions?
Experiences?

Ron


I have one SWB I bought about a year ago, and have test-rode a few other
SWB's and other two-wheelers as well. I notice this too on mine, when I
ride through somewhat-deep gravel the front wheel creeps/slides
left-and-right, even though I hold the steering in a straight line. And
this gravel would be NOTHING on a upright road or MTB, so I think it is
caused by heavily-loaded small front wheels. On a couple test-rides, I
have slightly felt the other recumbent bikes (that I did not buy) do the
same thing. And of course braking makes that problem even worse. Also I
notice that most-all recumbents (at least, the ones with small front
wheels that I rode) could not be ridden hands-free. So I think a tiny
front wheel just does not stabilize as well as a big wheel does. ,,,,
And I kind of like the Rans crank-forwad bikes. But the first year they
came out, they had a little 20" wheel on the front, but Rans changed
that to a big wheel. Coincidence? I think not. ---- My SWB is a 20/26",
by the by. ---- ....I would suggest a LWB or a CLWB, I want to buy
another bent for guests to ride on but would not get another SWB for
that, I would get a LWB or CLWB. The longer bikes feel much more stable
overall, the SWB's are very jittery. Some people could get on mine and
ride it quickly (with platform pedals on it) but they wandered around a
lot, because of the lack of steering stability. ----- I think the
"most-stable" recumbent would be a LWB with big wheels, 700's or 26's.
At least one company makes one [I don't recall who, but I've seen their
website ], maybe two companies doing it but not very many though. --Or,
one could I suppose get a regular small-front-wheel LWB and try putting
a long fork and big wheel on the front.... ? Some people do this to turn
a "general-purpose" SWB into a high-racer.
 




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