Repairing a transverse crack in a Columbus SL toptube?

landotter wrote:

At any rate, Taiwanese and Chinese factories churn out cheap and
cheerful frames in steel and aluminum which are great if you fit a
standard size and just want something straight to bolt parts onto and
ride.

That is true. It's mind-boggling to me that you can buy a perfectly
good, brand new frameset from a number of sources and pay less for it
than it would cost you to get a basic one-color paint job on the same
frame.

I've come to enjoy the patina and personality of salvaged bikes better
than new ones, but there's no doubt that for practicality,
compatibility, and effort-efficiency it's hard to beat plain no-
nonsense new equipment.

Chalo

In article
,
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Hi.

I have a mid-1980's vintage Miele road bike with Columbus SL tubing.
The toptube has two horizontal openings in it for theentry and exit of
the internal rear brake cable housing. Unfortunately the toptube
hasdeveloped a crack that runs transversely from the openng at the
front end of the forward cable opening and goes almost all the way
around the top tube.

To replqce that toptube with another Columbus SL one would cost about
$275.00 at the only shop around here that's willing to repalce that
tube.

I have a friend who has a MIG welder. He says he can fill and smooth
that crack and the bike would be rideable again. He sayshe'd fill
those two holes for the cable housing and that I could runthe cable
along the top of the toptube. He took an indepth bicycle mechanic
repair course and is cetified.

I'd far prefer having the cable routed inside the frame so that I
don't have to be bothered with cable clamps when I have to carry the
bike.

In the opinion of the experts here who do or heve had such work done:

Will filling this crack using a MIG welder give a frame that's safe to
ride?

Can this be done without having to fill the holes where the rear brake
cable housing enters and exits?

Thanks and cheers

Fill the holes and braze on cable stops.
Less cable housing - less friction.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

landotter wrote:

Unlike steel frames of the
80s, most cheap alu frames are well made and straight, if a little
utilitarian. If the OP loves teh bike, fix it properly. I wouldn't
bother.

I think Japanese lugged steel frames of the mid-'80s (immediately pre-
index shifting) were about as good as mass market steel frames ever
got.

'70s steel frames were often crude, crooked, or poorly finished, or
sometimes all three. But once the Japanese got their game on quality-
wise, they began to show everyone else in the world how it was done.
Mid-80s Nishikis, Bridgestones, Panasonics, Univegas, Miyatas,
Maruishis, and Japanese-made Schwinns and Specializeds are unsurpassed
in terms of level of craftsmanship per cost.

Gimmicky bull**** like internal cable routing was more characteristic
of overvalued European-made fashion bikes, like the stuff that's being
made from plastic these days. Of course these things did not work out
as well as interchangeable Japanese frames with proven conservative
design and consistent workmanship.

I had one of those Nishiki bicycles.
While everything you say is true,
for some reason it rode like a pig.
It was a bit heavy and showed it.
Not nifty, and rode hard. It was stable.

--
Michael Press

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 04:15:17 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On 25 jan, 03:57, Dark Helmet wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:20:55 -0800 (PST), landotter





wrote:
On Jan 24, 11:38*am, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 24-1-2012 12:39, Sir Ridesalot schreef:

Hi.

I have a mid-1980's vintage Miele road bike with Columbus SL tubing.
The toptube has two horizontal openings in it for theentry and exit of
the internal rear brake cable housing. Unfortunately the toptube
hasdeveloped a crack that runs transversely from the openng at the
front end of the forward cable opening and goes almost all the way
around the top tube.

To replqce that toptube with another Columbus SL one would cost about
$275.00 at the only shop around here that's willing to repalce that
tube.

I have a friend who has a MIG welder. He says he can fill and smooth
that crack and the bike would be rideable again. He sayshe'd fill
those two holes for the cable housing and that I could runthe cable
along the top of the toptube. He *took an indepth bicycle mechanic
repair course and is cetified.

I'd far prefer having the cable routed inside the frame so that I
don't have to be bothered with cable clamps when I have to carry the
bike.

In the opinion of the experts here who do or heve had such work done:

Will filling this crack using a MIG welder give a frame that's safe to
ride?

Can this be done without having to fill the holes where the rear brake
cable housing enters and exits?

Thanks and cheers

I'm shocked! A steel frame that breaks? WTF ;-) Fortunately you can ride
to the first blacksmith in the middle of nowhere. He can repair your
frame so I'm told again and again.
Just kidding. If the frame has emotional value replace the whole tube
otherwise consider a cheap aluminum replacement. My 2 ct.

Lou

Indeed. If you want something for riding. Unlike steel frames of the
80s, most cheap alu frames are well made and straight, if a little
utilitarian. If the OP loves teh bike, fix it properly. I wouldn't
bother.

Boy do I disagree. *At the start of 2010 I sent my 1991 Bob Jackson
531 Pro bike for frame repair (freeing a stuck stem, adding a front
derailleur boss, and respacing the rear triangle from 126mm to 130mm)
for about $250 plus shipping. *Then I had the who frame stripped and
repainted, including replacing all the Bob Jackson Reynold 531 frame
decals, for a painting total of $650. *That was about $900 to repair
and refinish the frame, and in my opinion it was worth every penny.
That frame has more miles on it than my car and is now over 20 years
old and still in fine condition.

You can keep your cheap aluminum frames. *They creak and flex to much
for my taste; I'll take steel every day of the week!- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

It is hard/impossible to rationalize spending 900 dollar on a 20 year
old steel frame. For 900 dollar you can get the best aluminum frame
available today. Besides emotional value better in every other aspect
than a steel frame with pretty common Reynolds 531 tubing.

Lou

Whatever. This old frame was a custom build made to fit ME
specifically. It was well worth the repair and custom paint job. The
paint was expensive because one of the best frame painters in the US
worked on it and had to do all the logo work by hand. I couldn't find
anybody to give me a cheaper bid.

On 25-1-2012 22:11, Chalo wrote:
landotter wrote:

At any rate, Taiwanese and Chinese factories churn out cheap and
cheerful frames in steel and aluminum which are great if you fit a
standard size and just want something straight to bolt parts onto and
ride.

That is true. It's mind-boggling to me that you can buy a perfectly
good, brand new frameset from a number of sources and pay less for it
than it would cost you to get a basic one-color paint job on the same
frame.



or buy an unpainted frame for less than the going price of it's weight
in extruded alumnium at the metal merchant!
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

On 26 jan, 04:43, Dark Helmet wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 04:15:17 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman





wrote:
On 25 jan, 03:57, Dark Helmet wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:20:55 -0800 (PST), landotter

wrote:
On Jan 24, 11:38*am, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 24-1-2012 12:39, Sir Ridesalot schreef:

Hi.

I have a mid-1980's vintage Miele road bike with Columbus SL tubing.
The toptube has two horizontal openings in it for theentry and exit of
the internal rear brake cable housing. Unfortunately the toptube
hasdeveloped a crack that runs transversely from the openng at the
front end of the forward cable opening and goes almost all the way
around the top tube.

To replqce that toptube with another Columbus SL one would cost about
$275.00 at the only shop around here that's willing to repalce that
tube.

I have a friend who has a MIG welder. He says he can fill and smooth
that crack and the bike would be rideable again. He sayshe'd fill
those two holes for the cable housing and that I could runthe cable
along the top of the toptube. He *took an indepth bicycle mechanic
repair course and is cetified.

I'd far prefer having the cable routed inside the frame so that I
don't have to be bothered with cable clamps when I have to carry the
bike.

In the opinion of the experts here who do or heve had such work done:

Will filling this crack using a MIG welder give a frame that's safe to
ride?

Can this be done without having to fill the holes where the rear brake
cable housing enters and exits?

Thanks and cheers

I'm shocked! A steel frame that breaks? WTF ;-) Fortunately you can ride
to the first blacksmith in the middle of nowhere. He can repair your
frame so I'm told again and again.
Just kidding. If the frame has emotional value replace the whole tube
otherwise consider a cheap aluminum replacement. My 2 ct.

Lou

Indeed. If you want something for riding. Unlike steel frames of the
80s, most cheap alu frames are well made and straight, if a little
utilitarian. If the OP loves teh bike, fix it properly. I wouldn't
bother.

Boy do I disagree. *At the start of 2010 I sent my 1991 Bob Jackson
531 Pro bike for frame repair (freeing a stuck stem, adding a front
derailleur boss, and respacing the rear triangle from 126mm to 130mm)
for about $250 plus shipping. *Then I had the who frame stripped and
repainted, including replacing all the Bob Jackson Reynold 531 frame
decals, for a painting total of $650. *That was about $900 to repair
and refinish the frame, and in my opinion it was worth every penny.
That frame has more miles on it than my car and is now over 20 years
old and still in fine condition.

You can keep your cheap aluminum frames. *They creak and flex to much
for my taste; I'll take steel every day of the week!- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

It is hard/impossible to rationalize spending 900 dollar on a 20 year
old steel frame. For 900 dollar you can get the best aluminum frame
available today. Besides emotional value better in every other aspect
than a steel frame with pretty common Reynolds 531 tubing.

Lou

Whatever. *This old frame was a custom build made to fit ME
specifically. *It was well worth the repair and custom paint job. *The
paint was expensive because one of the best frame painters in the US
worked on it and had to do all the logo work by hand. *I couldn't find
anybody to give me a cheaper bid.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

It perfectly OK with me that you spent that kind of money repairing/
updating your frame. A custom/unique paintjob doesn't make it ride
better, creak less or make it less flexible. IMO your contempt of
cheap aluminum frames is misplaced. Aluminum doesn't creak and
aluminum frames are not flexible by default. On the contrary.

Lou

On Jan 26, 8:11*am, m-gineering wrote:
On 25-1-2012 22:11, Chalo wrote:

landotter wrote:

At any rate, Taiwanese and Chinese factories churn out cheap and
cheerful frames in steel and aluminum which are great if you fit a
standard size and just want something straight to bolt parts onto and
ride.

That is true. *It's mind-boggling to me that you can buy a perfectly
good, brand new frameset from a number of sources and pay less for it
than it would cost you to get a basic one-color paint job on the same
frame.

or buy an unpainted frame for less than the going price of it's weight
in extruded alumnium at the metal merchant!


I noticed that with some European rims last year, the fancy rim
extrusion, bending pocketing and drilling from a bicycle and parts
retailer being cheaper by 10% than a simple square extrusion of
similar dimension and weight from a metal stockholder. I expect that
the stockholder was keeping his prices related to the ingot price,
rising with the market for the basic commodity.

Michael Press writes:

In article
,
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Hi.

I have a mid-1980's vintage Miele road bike with Columbus SL tubing.
The toptube has two horizontal openings in it for theentry and exit of
the internal rear brake cable housing. Unfortunately the toptube
hasdeveloped a crack that runs transversely from the openng at the
front end of the forward cable opening and goes almost all the way
around the top tube.

To replqce that toptube with another Columbus SL one would cost about
$275.00 at the only shop around here that's willing to repalce that
tube.

I have a friend who has a MIG welder. He says he can fill and smooth
that crack and the bike would be rideable again. He sayshe'd fill
those two holes for the cable housing and that I could runthe cable
along the top of the toptube. He took an indepth bicycle mechanic
repair course and is cetified.

I'd far prefer having the cable routed inside the frame so that I
don't have to be bothered with cable clamps when I have to carry the
bike.

In the opinion of the experts here who do or heve had such work done:

Will filling this crack using a MIG welder give a frame that's safe to
ride?

Can this be done without having to fill the holes where the rear brake
cable housing enters and exits?

Thanks and cheers

Fill the holes and braze on cable stops.
Less cable housing - less friction.

The friction of a straight section is negligible.
However, routing the cable internally slighly increases
the total curvature, so that can have a small effect.
Also, the compressibility of the housing is eliminated
(with cable stops).


--
Joe Riel

Michael Press wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I think Japanese lugged steel frames of the mid-'80s (immediately pre-
index shifting) were about as good as mass market steel frames ever
got.

'70s steel frames were often crude, crooked, or poorly finished, or
sometimes all three. But once the Japanese got their game on quality-
wise, they began to show everyone else in the world how it was done.
Mid-80s Nishikis, Bridgestones, Panasonics, Univegas, Miyatas,
Maruishis, and Japanese-made Schwinns and Specializeds are unsurpassed
in terms of level of craftsmanship per cost.

I had one of those Nishiki bicycles.
While everything you say is true,
for some reason it rode like a pig.
It was a bit heavy and showed it.
Not nifty, and rode hard. It was stable.

I guess I like pigs. My '75 Schwinn Varsity rides great for me now
that I've added beefed-up wheels, stem, and bars. It's much better
than I expected. My 1980ish Japanese Schwinn Traveler weighed almost
11-1/2 pounds as frame, fork, headset and bottom bracket. It's one of
the sweetest-riding bikes I've ever had.

All my bikes that exhibited easily noticeable frame movement while
riding have fallen by the wayside, except for my youngest ('00s
vintage) Cannondale touring bike. The front end of that bike twists
out of plane with the rear, but it is tolerable as a basket bike for
jaunts around town.

Chalo

On Jan 24, 1:52*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Hi.

I have a mid-1980's vintage Miele road bike with Columbus SL tubing.
The toptube has two horizontal openings in it for theentry and exit of
the internal rear brake cable housing. Unfortunately the toptube
hasdeveloped a crack that runs transversely from the openng at the
front end of the forward cable opening and goes almost all the way
around the top tube.

To replqce that toptube with another Columbus SL one would cost about
$275.00 at the only shop around here that's willing to repalce that
tube.

I have a friend who has a MIG welder. He says he can fill and smooth
that crack and the bike would be rideable again. He sayshe'd fill
those two holes for the cable housing and that I could runthe cable
along the top of the toptube. He *took an indepth bicycle mechanic
repair course and is cetified.

I'd far prefer having the cable routed inside the frame so that I
don't have to be bothered with cable clamps when I have to carry the
bike.

In the opinion of the experts here who do or heve had such work done:

Will filling this crack using a MIG welder give a frame that's safe to
ride?

Can this be done without having to fill the holes where the rear brake
cable housing enters and exits?

Thanks and cheers

You should replace the tube. Example:http://www.yellowjersey.org/gth.html

A MIG patch is a temporary solution and will almost
certainly fail. $275 is a fair price for a lugged tube
replacement, neither at the high nor low extreme.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Okay.

Now I'm curious about an effective emergency repair if this had
happend on the road a long ways from home.

If the frame was cut completely through where the crack is and then
twisted out of line so that a snug fitting internal sleeve could be
inserted and then MIG weldeed or brazed; would that be an effective
repair for say 200 miles of riding?

Thanks again and cheers