Vintage 600 BB Spindle fit Vintage Campy Italian Threaded Cups?

Hi there.

I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?

Thanks

On 16-3-2012 9:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Hi there.

I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?

Thanks

step1: look at the bearings, do both axles use 11 x 1/4"? (CAmpa did
some funnys for the Ti axles)

If yes stick it together and measure the width over the cups between
flange and lockring. Anywhere the 70mm you need?
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

On Mar 16, 5:50*am, m-gineering wrote:
On 16-3-2012 9:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Hi there.

I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?

Thanks

step1: look at the bearings, do both axles use 11 x 1/4"? *(CAmpa did
some funnys for the Ti axles)

If yes stick it together and measure the width over the cups between
flange and lockring. *Anywhere the 70mm you need?
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Thanks Marten.

The only reason I thought this might work was because the bearing
sizes are the same in the two sets. I'm just goingto pull the crank
and spindle from the frame and try this spindle and if it's a go I'll
be very happy.

Thanks again and cheers

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?


Yes, if they are Nuovo Record 745A & 746A (post-1968) and
not Record 745/746.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Hi there.

I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?

You may have a spindle width issue of your Shimano spindle
is marked '68' rather that the correct '70'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mar 16, 6:58*am, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:50*am, m-gineering wrote:









On 16-3-2012 9:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Hi there.

I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?

Thanks

step1: look at the bearings, do both axles use 11 x 1/4"? *(CAmpa did
some funnys for the Ti axles)

If yes stick it together and measure the width over the cups between
flange and lockring. *Anywhere the 70mm you need?
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Thanks Marten.

The only reason I thought this might work was because the bearing
sizes are the same in the two sets. I'm just goingto pull the crank
and spindle from the frame and try this spindle and if it's a go I'll
be very happy.

Thanks again and cheers

If you still have the spindle for the Campy BB, suggest you do a
visual comparison to see if there's any likelihood of a working mis-
match.
The spindles have different tapers; you might want to read Sheldon
Brown's words, which might illuminate your inspection/comparison:

http://sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

As with many things imponderable, Arabesque parts in excellent shape
are worth money on, for instance, ebay (where *they* have to bid, if
you're selling).
There aren't any (hint hint) Shimano Arabesque bottom brackets either
in active auctions, or in the "sold" category (Advanced search,
Completed listings).
Well, that's one thing that wears out with use, is bottom brackets,
eventually; and possibly very much sooner if they are not installed
properly (speaking to the point on the cup-and-cone, square-taper
variety we have here). Who knows what price a bright/shiny Arabesque
BB, English, might fetch, given sharp, close-up photos in an Item
Description, and some good Seller Feedback?

I bet an Arabesque headset that hasn't seen its top adjusting nut
marred, one also without "dented" ball races, would be worth a
suitable amount of money, too.

You might believe that I am trying to help, here, in raising the
suggestion that "old Campy cranks are known to break" (just one for
me, so far, and years ago, although it was in the middle of a sprint
for the line-- with a safe, slightly wobbly landing which could have
been so much worse); that old Arabesque cranks might be expected to be
no different, and that, in general, "old stuff", for all its
undeniable appeal, might best be "ridden by others" or, better,
"displayed by others", while a good & capable scrounger would be able
to "turn old into new" or at least, "NOS", or "new, take-off" parts.

I finally entered the 21rst Century recently, buying (scounging) (by
bidding) and installing a very lightly used Ultegra crank and brand-
new BB (also bought at a substantial discount from retail) (by
bidding) (all on ebay). One cheap "spanner" tool, only, to buy, needed
for installation, and the cups, with bearings, are cheap even at list
price. I think they call that "progress".

In use? Perhaps not the buttery smoothness of the Campy cartridge BB's
I still have on the other bikes, but simple to assemble and not nearly
as expensive as those "end of the line" (for square taper BB's), "pre-
Outboard" units from Campy. Which bottom brackets, even if they are
expensive to buy, are also simple to install, unlike the old cup-and-
cone units, and have given excellent, long-term service. Again, just
for your reference, only one cheap (and small!) tool needed for
installation with the upper-end Campy cartridge BB's, as long as you
already have a suitably large (long handle) adjustable open-end wrench
or other "driver" available. BTW, I found my 12" Crescent wrench on
the side of the road... not bad-mouthing the one I bought new for my
professional needs, of course g, but the foundling is so much more
satisfying to use.
--D-y

wrote:
BTW, I found my 12" Crescent wrench on
the side of the road... not bad-mouthing the one I bought new for my
professional needs, of courseg, but the foundling is so much more
satisfying to use.

Today's ride scored a nice set of Channel Locks. Not as exciting as the
complete set of sockets, ratchet handle and case I once found, but
pleasing nonetheless.

Best find would have been a pristine Leatherman, about $80+, but I went
by it in the rain, and my touring buddy behind me spotted it and grabbed
it. The case was within a few yards. I'm still jealous.

--
- Frank Krygowski

wrote:
On Mar 16, 6:58 am, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:50 am, m-gineering wrote:









On 16-3-2012 9:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Hi there.
I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?
Thanks
step1: look at the bearings, do both axles use 11 x 1/4"? (CAmpa did
some funnys for the Ti axles)
If yes stick it together and measure the width over the cups between
flange and lockring. Anywhere the 70mm you need?
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
Thanks Marten.

The only reason I thought this might work was because the bearing
sizes are the same in the two sets. I'm just goingto pull the crank
and spindle from the frame and try this spindle and if it's a go I'll
be very happy.

Thanks again and cheers

If you still have the spindle for the Campy BB, suggest you do a
visual comparison to see if there's any likelihood of a working mis-
match.
The spindles have different tapers; you might want to read Sheldon
Brown's words, which might illuminate your inspection/comparison:

http://sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

As with many things imponderable, Arabesque parts in excellent shape
are worth money on, for instance, ebay (where *they* have to bid, if
you're selling).
There aren't any (hint hint) Shimano Arabesque bottom brackets either
in active auctions, or in the "sold" category (Advanced search,
Completed listings).
Well, that's one thing that wears out with use, is bottom brackets,
eventually; and possibly very much sooner if they are not installed
properly (speaking to the point on the cup-and-cone, square-taper
variety we have here). Who knows what price a bright/shiny Arabesque
BB, English, might fetch, given sharp, close-up photos in an Item
Description, and some good Seller Feedback?

I bet an Arabesque headset that hasn't seen its top adjusting nut
marred, one also without "dented" ball races, would be worth a
suitable amount of money, too.

You might believe that I am trying to help, here, in raising the
suggestion that "old Campy cranks are known to break" (just one for
me, so far, and years ago, although it was in the middle of a sprint
for the line-- with a safe, slightly wobbly landing which could have
been so much worse); that old Arabesque cranks might be expected to be
no different, and that, in general, "old stuff", for all its
undeniable appeal, might best be "ridden by others" or, better,
"displayed by others", while a good & capable scrounger would be able
to "turn old into new" or at least, "NOS", or "new, take-off" parts.

I finally entered the 21rst Century recently, buying (scounging) (by
bidding) and installing a very lightly used Ultegra crank and brand-
new BB (also bought at a substantial discount from retail) (by
bidding) (all on ebay). One cheap "spanner" tool, only, to buy, needed
for installation, and the cups, with bearings, are cheap even at list
price. I think they call that "progress".

In use? Perhaps not the buttery smoothness of the Campy cartridge BB's
I still have on the other bikes, but simple to assemble and not nearly
as expensive as those "end of the line" (for square taper BB's), "pre-
Outboard" units from Campy. Which bottom brackets, even if they are
expensive to buy, are also simple to install, unlike the old cup-and-
cone units, and have given excellent, long-term service. Again, just
for your reference, only one cheap (and small!) tool needed for
installation with the upper-end Campy cartridge BB's, as long as you
already have a suitably large (long handle) adjustable open-end wrench
or other "driver" available. BTW, I found my 12" Crescent wrench on
the side of the road... not bad-mouthing the one I bought new for my
professional needs, of course g, but the foundling is so much more
satisfying to use.
--D-y

There is no difference in the taper angle or section between
a vintage 600 Arabesque, a Record or a Nuovo Record. I do
not recall the spindle dimensions for that 1970s Shimano
product but if the lengths are suitable, the taper is not an
issue.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/16/2012 3:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
wrote:
BTW, I found my 12" Crescent wrench on
the side of the road... not bad-mouthing the one I bought new for my
professional needs, of courseg, but the foundling is so much more
satisfying to use.

Today's ride scored a nice set of Channel Locks. Not as exciting as the
complete set of sockets, ratchet handle and case I once found, but
pleasing nonetheless.

Best find would have been a pristine Leatherman, about $80+, but I went
by it in the rain, and my touring buddy behind me spotted it and grabbed
it. The case was within a few yards. I'm still jealous.


People always seem to find stuff while biking. I found a nice Crescent
wrench (already had 3), too, and a cell phone (called & returned it),
but both times I was walking my bike. I don't think I've ever found
anything while actually riding on the road, I did find a nice MTB pump
in the woods (already had 2). On the other hand, my son has found a
couple of watches, my wife *did* spot a nice Leatherman (I now have 3)
and another watch (I have more than 3). On the debit side, I lost my
gold wedding band while cycling, that would take a lot of wrenches and
Leathermen to make up for. On balance, I'm not doing so well in the lost
& found department.

One might say that I'm not paying attention, but my son & wife have both
had a couple of crashes, and I never have, despite many more miles
ridden. Guess I'm just paying attention to other things. At least that's
what I tell them.

On Mar 16, 9:41*am, AMuzi wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Hi there.

I have a vintage steel frame with Italian threaded bottom bracket
shell that I'd like to put my Shimano 600 Arabesque groupset on. The
problem is that my 600 Arabesque bottom bracket is English. Can I use
the 600 spindle with the vintage Campy Italian cups I have?

You may have a spindle width issue of your Shimano spindle
is marked '68' rather that the correct '70'.

Yah, the problem is the BB shell width. He'll need an Italiano
spindle. He can get one of these, which is not too expensive.
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...thread-bb.html

-- Jay Beattie.