How much power does an average recreational rider generate whenclimbing?

I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris

Art Harris wrote:
I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Received wisdom is that a "tourist" generates about 150W on an all-day
ride. Whether it's uphill or not is irrelevant, I think - he/she just
goes slower. However, if you're fit enough to ride at 150W all day you
can probably develop around twice that for 20 minutes.

"Art Harris" wrote in message
...
I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris



Hi Art,
This calculator:
http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html
lets you estimate the power required for a certain climb at a certain speed
and weight, so you can input different power values until the time comes out
to the actual value. For your example above, if you input 8% and 1 mile and
leave everything else at default values, it predicts that at 100W it would
take 18.5 minutes at an average speed of 3.25 mph to do the climb. At 250 W,
it'd take 7.7 minutes. Don't know how close its results are to a PowerTap -
that'd be a very interesting comparison for someone to do.
Kerry

On Aug 5, 11:00 am, "Kerry Montgomery" wrote:
"Art Harris" wrote in message

...

I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris

Hi Art,
This calculator:http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html
lets you estimate the power required for a certain climb at a certain speed
and weight, so you can input different power values until the time comes out
to the actual value. For your example above, if you input 8% and 1 mile and
leave everything else at default values, it predicts that at 100W it would
take 18.5 minutes at an average speed of 3.25 mph to do the climb. At 250 W,
it'd take 7.7 minutes. Don't know how close its results are to a PowerTap -
that'd be a very interesting comparison for someone to do.
Kerry

I have a friend who is pretty good. He is in his late forties and can
probably race well with cat 3s. Once we went up a hill and I think
that he said that his apparatus recorded 400+ watts on a 6 mile climb.
Not sure how accurate his apparatus is or how fast he went up. I was a
little behind him :-(

I am going to try hill sprints tonite, for the first time in 10 years.
I wonder how much wattage I will generate? Probably 50 watts :-(

"Art Harris" wrote in message
...
I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris

Art: The *huge* variable is rider weight. A lighter rider will have much
lower power figures for the same rate of climb than a heavier rider. There
are two standards for rating how well racers perform- watts/kilogram of
weight, and VAM (meters climbed/hour).

But from a practical standpoint, I weigh 175 (too much for my 6' frame), 52
years old, and can do a long climb (4+ miles) at about 325 watts and a heart
rate between 164-170 (absolute redline at 177, so technically I'm way beyond
the theoretical 80% for a sustained effort, but I think they're recognizing
the flaws on that one, plus there may be differences that come into play for
someone who's relatively fit but somewhat asthmatic).

Here's the strange thing. As I've gotten older, I can sprint better (I tell
my legs what to do, and they do it... just not for long!) but the steeper
stuff is no longer my friend.

One other thing. When you ask how hard you can go without blowing up, there
are different ways of blowing up. There's the total blow up where you go
from full throttle to maybe half-speed and never recover, vs blowing up,
taking a breather and then getting back to it (essentially interval
training).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
The *huge* variable is rider weight. A lighter rider will have much
lower power figures for the same rate of climb than a heavier rider. There
are two standards for rating how well racers perform- watts/kilogram of
weight, and VAM (meters climbed/hour).

But from a practical standpoint, I weigh 175 (too much for my 6' frame), 52
years old, and can do a long climb (4+ miles) at about 325 watts and a heart
rate between 164-170 (absolute redline at 177, so technically I'm way beyond
the theoretical 80% for a sustained effort, but I think they're recognizing
the flaws on that one, plus there may be differences that come into play for
someone who's relatively fit but somewhat asthmatic).

Here's the strange thing. As I've gotten older, I can sprint better (I tell
my legs what to do, and they do it... just not for long!) but the steeper
stuff is no longer my friend.

One other thing. When you ask how hard you can go without blowing up, there
are different ways of blowing up. There's the total blow up where you go
from full throttle to maybe half-speed and never recover, vs blowing up,
taking a breather and then getting back to it (essentially interval
training).


Thanks Mike (and the others who responded). I suspected weight was a
big factor. My stats are 6"3" ~190lbs and 58 years.

I was entering numbers into the analytic cycling calculator for
various scenarios, but I don't usually think in terms of Watts when
cycling. Just trying to get a feel for how much power is needed for
different climbs, and also how much it takes out of you. On very steep
climbs, I tend to just go as slow as I can while keeping the bike
upright. On shorter or less steep climbs, I may be more aggressive,
but as the ride wears on it sometimes takes its toll.

Your 325 watts for 4+ miles of climbing is pretty impressive. Are you
using a Power tap?

Art Harris

Your 325 watts for 4+ miles of climbing is pretty impressive. Are you
using a Power tap?

Art Harris

Err... that 4+ miles doesn't mean anything over 4. It means a climb that is
4.34 miles. At 4.35 miles, output goes to zero. :)

No, I don't use a powermeter, but others on my ride do, and I can correlate
their results along with the computed requirements for the particular climb
to come up with something very close to reality.

And that 325 watts would have been a lot more impressive when I raced and
weighed 133 pounds. Of course, a strong crosswind would blow me over, but I
sure could climb! Overall I was at my best around 154 pounds or so.

Now, my goal is to try and stay within fighting distance of the weight it
shows on my drivers license. Anybody else who can relate to that?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Art Harris" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
The *huge* variable is rider weight. A lighter rider will have much
lower power figures for the same rate of climb than a heavier rider.
There
are two standards for rating how well racers perform- watts/kilogram of
weight, and VAM (meters climbed/hour).

But from a practical standpoint, I weigh 175 (too much for my 6' frame),
52
years old, and can do a long climb (4+ miles) at about 325 watts and a
heart
rate between 164-170 (absolute redline at 177, so technically I'm way
beyond
the theoretical 80% for a sustained effort, but I think they're
recognizing
the flaws on that one, plus there may be differences that come into play
for
someone who's relatively fit but somewhat asthmatic).

Here's the strange thing. As I've gotten older, I can sprint better (I
tell
my legs what to do, and they do it... just not for long!) but the steeper
stuff is no longer my friend.

One other thing. When you ask how hard you can go without blowing up,
there
are different ways of blowing up. There's the total blow up where you go
from full throttle to maybe half-speed and never recover, vs blowing up,
taking a breather and then getting back to it (essentially interval
training).


Thanks Mike (and the others who responded). I suspected weight was a
big factor. My stats are 6"3" ~190lbs and 58 years.

I was entering numbers into the analytic cycling calculator for
various scenarios, but I don't usually think in terms of Watts when
cycling. Just trying to get a feel for how much power is needed for
different climbs, and also how much it takes out of you. On very steep
climbs, I tend to just go as slow as I can while keeping the bike
upright. On shorter or less steep climbs, I may be more aggressive,
but as the ride wears on it sometimes takes its toll.

Your 325 watts for 4+ miles of climbing is pretty impressive. Are you
using a Power tap?

Art Harris

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"Art Harris" wrote in message
...
I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris

Art: The *huge* variable is rider weight. A lighter rider will have much
lower power figures for the same rate of climb than a heavier rider. There
are two standards for rating how well racers perform- watts/kilogram of
weight, and VAM (meters climbed/hour).

But from a practical standpoint, I weigh 175 (too much for my 6' frame),

not necessarily so.

http://www.reuters.com/article/healt...66953420070316

52
years old, and can do a long climb (4+ miles) at about 325 watts and a heart
rate between 164-170 (absolute redline at 177, so technically I'm way beyond
the theoretical 80% for a sustained effort, but I think they're recognizing
the flaws on that one, plus there may be differences that come into play for
someone who's relatively fit but somewhat asthmatic).

Here's the strange thing. As I've gotten older, I can sprint better (I tell
my legs what to do, and they do it... just not for long!) but the steeper
stuff is no longer my friend.

One other thing. When you ask how hard you can go without blowing up, there
are different ways of blowing up. There's the total blow up where you go
from full throttle to maybe half-speed and never recover, vs blowing up,
taking a breather and then getting back to it (essentially interval
training).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:55:38 -0700 (PDT), Art Harris
wrote:

I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris

Dear Art,

Here's another calculator that might suit your interest:
http://bikecalculator.com/wattsUS.html

Enter weight, grade, and so forth, then put in the mph that you manage
before blowing up, and it predicts watts.

Let's say that your 16-17 mph in rolling terrain translates to 20 mph
on the flats (round numbers are fun). You've mentioned 190 lbs, try
tubulars on the drops (the RR for clinchers vs. tubulars may be a bit
outdated), ignore age because RBT posters only grow more powerful with
age--

Round 169 watts on the flats up to 170 watts.

Now stick 170 watts into the companion watts-to-mph that Kerry
mentioned
http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html

It predicts 20.03 mph on the flats, 4.52 mph up an 8% grade.

Let's bump the power to 200 watts--5.30 mph up the 8% grade.

You could reverse things, using the mph that you can hold steadily up
the 8% grade, and get an idea of watts.

When you climb at such low speeds, wind drag doesn't change things
much--higher temperatures and elevations will have hardly any effect
on the speed, even with x.xx precision.

Changing from the drops to the hoods doesn't matter much, either. The
200 watt speed of 5.30 mph up the 8% grade drops to 5.28 mph if you
sit up and grap the tops.

Even small winds won't matter much--at 200 watts up the 8% grade, a 5
mph headwind that knocks 3 mph off the 21.3 mph flat speed will reduce
the 5.30 mph climbing speed only 0.17 mph.

Minor changes in grade don't do much--8.2% drops the 5.30 mph speed
down to 5.18, while 7.8% raises it to 5.43 mph.

Surprisingly, even weight doesn't have as much effect as our obsession
with grams leads us to believe. Add 7 pounds to the 22-lb default
bike, and the 5.30 mph on-the-drops 200-watt speed falls to 5.14 mph.
(In other words, you don't need to toss your water bottle.)

If you want to find Power Tap users, you can join the moderated
wattage group and browse a bit:
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage

You may not even have to join--try clicking on "discussions" on the
link above, or try this link:
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/topics

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Aug 5, 10:55 am, Art Harris wrote:
I'm not talking about TdF riders, or amateur racers, or even local
"animals."

How much power can a typical, reasonably fit recreational rider
produce on long climbs. For instance, you're doing a 60-mile ride,
cruising along at about 16-17 mph in rolling terrain, and then
encounter a 1-mile 8-percent grade? Obviously, you're going to work
harder on the climb. But how hard can you go on the climb without
blowing up? 150 Watts? 200 Watts? 250 Watts?

Any Power Tap users out there?

Art Harris

Great thread - thanks for posting that question. I use Garmin Edge 305
cyclocomputer to store the data from the rides and then SportTracks
software to analyze them. There is a a plugin written for SportTracks
called GPS2Power that calculates power output using GPS data and also
weather data (headwind/tailwind). I was always curious how exact that
plugin was - one of the settings for the pluging is type of tyres and
I could only find approximate type - I use 28s on my bike and plugin
did not offer such option - it was strictly racing bike oriented
whereas I ride more of a touring setup.

That aside my typical Avg Power output according to that program was
around 120-140W. There were some strange anomalies though - few rides
(in 20+ miles range) where I would have 200-240W avg power. Some of
those I guess maybe some bugs due to GPS errors - Edge has weird thing
about sometimes not restarting correctly when you stop for a longer
rest.

I though that Max Power on some of the rides was weird but after
reading the thread here perhaps it is not - typical Max Power was
around 300-400W with few anomalies showing 500-700W - not sure how
to interpret those. I think those maxes come more from riding fast on
flats than from climbing though. Longest climbs I do (riding around
Austin) are about 2.5mile long ones with about 400ft elevation gain
and it seems that I am able to do 180W on this one.

Anyways - I was taking those numbers with a grain of salt - looking
more for relative trends than absolute values but it is good to know
that they may (at least majority of them) be close to reality.