New Tactical Cycling Maneuver

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:49:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 8:25 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 9/24/2020 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.


Meanwhile, just a few days ago and about three miles away, some dude
barged into a house in a very quiet neighborhood at 2 AM and blasted
away, shooting four adults and one four-year-old boy. The boy died in
his mother's arms.

Oddly, no "good guy with a gun" prevented the murder.

I suggest that the question is "Why". I did read that the police,
"stressed that it was not a random act of violence but rather a
targeted attack."

And I later read that "A suspect connected to a shooting that killed a
4-year-old Ohio boy and wounded four adults, including the boy's
mother, was arrested Monday night, authorities told Fox News.
and
Kimonie Bryant, 24, surrendered to the U.S. Marshals Service around 8
p.m., Struthers police Chief Tim Roddy said.


I do find it odd that one seldom hears calls for edged weapons control
or ban:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2020092...-hebdo-offices


Follow the UK news and you'll see lots of calls for knife control.

Here's a story on the CoE calling for a ban on pointy assault knives:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rn-world-says/

I gather that carrying a folding knife with a locking blade is
considered a serious offense in Blighty, sort of like a "gravity knife"
in NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/n...knife-law.html

Seems that particular misbegotten law has been repealed, sometimes there
is progress.

Rest assured that if knives are banned the powers that be will move on
to rocks and sharp sticks.

Let's compare knives vs. fast acting firearms.

There's this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States

vs. this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._United_States

The totals seem to be a bit different.

Try
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
31 deaths, 140 injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagamihara_stabbings
19 deaths and 26 injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack
8 deaths and 48 injured

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 3:53:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 1:28:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since 1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+ years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/

which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths. But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.
2014 32,744
2015 35,485
2016 37,806
2017 37,473
2018 36,560
total 180,068

That's a lot of deaths isn't it? And all of this is because you demand the right to be able to drive a motor vehicle. But I'm fairly certain you won't understand what I'm getting at.

Unbeknownst to you, there is NO RIGHT to drive a motor vehicle in the USA. It is a privilege awarded by the state in which you reside.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:58:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 10:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, 25 September 2020 16:28:46 UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since 1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+ years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/

which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths. But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.

Any two years on that list equals more firearm deaths than the Vietnam Conflict had in total.

Cheers

I don't know whether you consider it significant or not but in most
years suicides account for more then half of the firearm deaths.
In 2017, for example, some 23,854 committed suicide with a firearm.

If you had a family member who committed suicide by firearm, you might
not write those deaths off quite so cavalierly.

Well, I can't speak from experience but I believe that the ultimate
freedom must be to end it all.

And, it might be noted that according to the CDC, in age groups 10-14,
15-24 and 25-34 suicide is the 2nd most common cause of death and in
the 34-44 and 45-54 age groups the 4th.

In contrast homicide is the 3rd most common form of death in the 15-24
and 25-34 groups
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/stat.../suicide.shtml

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:34:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2020 11:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/25/2020 10:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, 25 September 2020 16:28:46 UTC-4,
wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5,
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not
mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since
1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+
years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without
incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/


which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does
that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day
nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I
guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one
tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its
irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is
a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth
as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm

Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA
from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed
vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths.
But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even
more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in
mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as
many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.

Any two years on that list equals more firearm deaths
than the Vietnam Conflict had in total.

Cheers

I don't know whether you consider it significant or not
but in most
years suicides account for more then half of the firearm
deaths.
In 2017, for example, some 23,854 committed suicide with a
firearm.

If you had a family member who committed suicide by firearm,
you might not write those deaths off quite so cavalierly.



Yes, some are tragic but of all the suicides I've known most
made the best decision for themselves and more importantly
those around them. If not firearm then something else, the
method being secondary in most cases.

re method, I read somewhere that firearms are used in about 5% of all
suicide attempts but resulted in death in 90% of the attempts.
--
Cheers,

John B.

rOn Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:18:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 10:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 20:17:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 7:11 PM, John B. wrote:

Timothy McVeigh carried out the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that
killed 168 people and injured more than 680 others and is considered
the deadliest act of terrorism in the United States prior to the
September 11 attacks and remains the deadliest act of domestic
terrorism in the history of the U.S., using fertilizer and diesel
fuel.

In contrast the 2017 Las Vegas shooting killed 60 and wounded 411.

Interesting point about the Oklahoma City bombing. Yes, 168 dead is a
lot for one criminal act.

But in five days, you'd exceed that with U.S. gun homicides. Is that
really supposed to make those OK?

So? Using 2013 (as I have details for that year) there were 33,169
firearm deaths, including some 21,175 suicides,During the same period
there were 32,893 highway deaths.

So apparently you are getting excepted about some 278 deaths, or at
least I've never heard you lament highway deaths so I assume that you
accept them, And, during 2013 there were 749 bicycle deaths.

So essentially you are getting all excepted about firearm deaths which
exceeded highway deaths, a subject that you seem to ignore, by a 278
and totally ignore the 746, nearly 3 times, bicycle deaths during the
same period.

You've raised that point before - but then, you didn't misuse the word
"excepted." (I'm not sure what meaning your intending for that.)

I suppose you could start a thread to philosophically examine each and
every cause of death. We could discuss methods of ranking, appropriate
raactions, etc. If you like that idea, have at it.

But as to your direct comparison of motoring deaths vs. gun deaths: I
don't blithely accept either, and neither does society as a whole.
However, there are important differences.

Motoring deaths, looked at in general, are a sad byproduct of an
otherwise beneficial system, since transport is necessary for human
interaction and commerce. It's extremely uncommon for people to claim we
can run a modern and prosperous society without use of motor vehicles.
So there are fortunes spent annually to learn how to retain motor
transportation but reduce its fatality count and rate.

On the other hand, gun deaths are a result of the design function of
guns, not a sad byproduct. In essence, guns exist to kill people or
things. And except for extremely isolated rural and wilderness locations
they are not necessary for human interaction and commerce. (Please
recall I am strongly in favor of hunting.) It's obviously possible to
run a prosperous society with far, far fewer man-killing guns than the
U.S. has. And furthermore, in the U.S. the gun lobby has put fortunes
into passing legislation _prohibiting_ research on reducing gun fatality
counts and rates.

The two cases are not very similar at all.

Frank, the last time I looked into it the U.S. was still a democracy
(or at least pretended to be) and so it is perfectly normal and
logical for the so called "gun lobby" which represents something like
42% of the population who live in a household where guns are owned
https://www.keranews.org/news/2020-0...e-u-s-own-guns
https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/...-own-guns.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...united-states/
to lobby for their "rights".

I might make the point that the population of the U.S. is about
330,359,275
https://www.census.gov/popclock/
so there are some 138,750,895 individuals that own or have access to a
firearm. Isn't it reasonable they be represented ?



--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:19:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/26/2020 2:31 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/26/2020 10:20 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote [but I just corrected one minor typo]:
On 9/25/2020 9:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:


I've never been to a two-way range, and I hope never to
experience that, but many things can transpire in a very
long full sixty second minute. Your
off-the-top-of-the-head 'standard' is idiotic.

I can tell you don't like my standard. But your post
contains no real rebuttal, except for what Jim Jeffries
notes from about 1:45 to 2:00 in this clip:
https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=102

I've never claimed that lots of guns can't shoot more than
five rounds in a minute. I know they can. I've shot several
myself.

Instead I'm saying (outside of military combat, of course)
that capability isn't needed. It's detriments to society far
outweigh it's benefits.

We rode by a shooting range just a few days ago. Among the
normal reports of normal target practice we could hear one
guy's occasional "pop pop pop pop pop." What do you suppose
he was pretending?


Pretending my ass. Probably home defense training which is popular and
like anything else deserving of practice in order to be effective.

Pretending. They may be pretending they'll prevent a home invasion by
shooting an intruder, but their shooting practice is based on pretending.
This
from Tuesday:

https://abc7chicago.com/waukegan-new...mpted/6506524/

Yes, and as I mentioned, we had the opposite here a few days ago -
someone barging in, shooting four adults and killing a four-year-old
kid. This afternoon we rode by several memorials to the kid.

I don't want a society where every family has to have a rapid fire gun
ready in the living room, because any punk on the street can easily get
a rapid fire weapon and barge in. It's beyond me how someone can pretend
that's wonderful.

But Frank. you live in a society with probably the highest crime rate
in the civilized world, or at least you have the largest number of
criminals in prison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ther_countries
In fact you have something like 2-1/3 times that of the next country
on the list.

And, by the way, a shotgun is a far more effective weapon for
household defense then a rifle or pistol :-0

--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/26/2020 3:30 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/26/2020 11:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/25/2020 10:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, 25 September 2020 16:28:46 UTC-4,
wrote:
On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 11:00:04 AM UTC-5,
AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not
mine.

You mistake my position. The Second was clearly and
tersely written with a definitive and final period after
'shall not be infringed' by men whose memory of Lexington
was fresh.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since
1934.
One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument. So here we are, some 80+
years
later in a nation where firearm ownership is widespread,
voluminous and growing. Yesterday, virtually all of them
passed another day nicely oiled and cased without
incident.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/13/


which comes to just under 5 million firearms in Ohio.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In the USA firearms kill about 100 people per day. Does
that meet your "virtually all of them passed another day
nicely oiled and cased without incident." criteria? I
guess the number of people dying by firearms is only one
tenth the number dying by Covid-19 each day. So its
irrelevant. Trump and the Republicans think Covid-19 is
a hoax and is going to go away very soon, so one tenth
as many dying by firearms each day is surely immaterial.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm

Sum of DEATHS
YEAR Total
2014 33,508
2015 36,132
2016 38,551
2017 39,673
2018 39,615
Total 187,479

Funny thing is about 3000 fewer people died in the USA
from vehicle accidents each year. I'd have guessed
vehicle deaths were much higher than firearm deaths.
But NO. Americans love to shoot people to death! Even
more than they like to run them over. Of course keep in
mind all these deaths by guns and cars are one tenth as
many as the Covid-19 is killing each day.

Any two years on that list equals more firearm deaths
than the Vietnam Conflict had in total.

Cheers

I don't know whether you consider it significant or not
but in most
years suicides account for more then half of the firearm
deaths.
In 2017, for example, some 23,854 committed suicide with a
firearm.

If you had a family member who committed suicide by firearm,
you might not write those deaths off quite so cavalierly.



Yes, some are tragic but of all the suicides I've known most
made the best decision for themselves and more importantly
those around them. If not firearm then something else, the
method being secondary in most cases.


That seems uncharacteristically cold of you, Andrew. I’m no expert on
suicide, but I see it as a result of a temporary loss of all optimism. The
one person that I know attempted suicide is still alive and quite happy
now. Perhaps if they had used a gun, the story wouldn’t have had quite so
happy of an ending.

I have known several people who suicided or attempted it. Only one
succeeded without using a gun. Two others who attempted and failed
have healed through therapy and are living decent to extremly good
lives.

Had they used guns, they'd be dead and those who love them would be
endlessly mourning.

People should not make light of suicide. They certainly should not do
it to advance pro-gun objectives.

Years ago, when my now ex-wife was working in a school for the blind,
she introduced me to two of the students. They were middle aged guys,
both completely sightless because they had attempted suicide by shooting
themselves in the head. If you do that the movie way, in front of the
temple, it seems it's actually quite possible to live. Probably not the
way to bet, though.

At the time they seemed reasonably happy, and were busy learning to live
as blind men.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 9/25/2020 8:25 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 9/24/2020 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.


Meanwhile, just a few days ago and about three miles away, some dude
barged into a house in a very quiet neighborhood at 2 AM and blasted
away, shooting four adults and one four-year-old boy. The boy died in
his mother's arms.

Oddly, no "good guy with a gun" prevented the murder.

I suggest that the question is "Why". I did read that the police,
"stressed that it was not a random act of violence but rather a
targeted attack."

And I later read that "A suspect connected to a shooting that killed a
4-year-old Ohio boy and wounded four adults, including the boy's
mother, was arrested Monday night, authorities told Fox News.
and
Kimonie Bryant, 24, surrendered to the U.S. Marshals Service around 8
p.m., Struthers police Chief Tim Roddy said.


I do find it odd that one seldom hears calls for edged weapons control
or ban:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2020092...-hebdo-offices


Follow the UK news and you'll see lots of calls for knife control.

Here's a story on the CoE calling for a ban on pointy assault knives:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rn-world-says/

I gather that carrying a folding knife with a locking blade is
considered a serious offense in Blighty, sort of like a "gravity knife"
in NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/n...knife-law.html

Seems that particular misbegotten law has been repealed, sometimes there
is progress.

Rest assured that if knives are banned the powers that be will move on
to rocks and sharp sticks.

Let's compare knives vs. fast acting firearms.

There's this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States

vs. this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._United_States

The totals seem to be a bit different.

I'm not sure how that's a rebuttal to my statement. The UK has made
non-police civilian firearms ownership close to impossible, but the
movers and shakers are not satisfied. They have moved on to trying to
ban pointy knives.

You might also ponder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

On 9/26/2020 8:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 11:22:10 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 11:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 20:07:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/25/2020 6:54 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/25/2020 12:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/25/2020 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2020 10:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other
prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort
executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at
all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.

I think Andrew's implication is that if (say) America
introduces universal background checks and restricts the
purchase of rapid fire assault-style weapons, that police
will begin executing civilians on the streets.

IOW, the implausible connection to gun control was not mine.


You mistake my position.

Perhaps, then, you should explain more clearly why you
linked a photo of a Nazi officer murdering captives.

The Second was clearly and tersely written with a
definitive and final period after 'shall not be infringed'
by men whose memory of Lexington was fresh.

I think it's obvious that the 2nd amendment has never been
interpreted as complete and total license to own any and all
firearms - at least, not by anyone with at least two
functioning brain cells. The current radical interpretation
is rather new and is at odds with many decades of
interpretation and practice. It's even at odds with the
NRA's historic positions. It's a product of a campaign to
line the pockets of LaPierre and others like him.

Automatic weapons have been severely restricted since
1934. One might argue that the National Firearms Act is an
unconstitutional abridgement but the courts are not
interested in that argument.

Please. The courts saw through that argument long ago. They
are not interested for very sound reasons.

So here we are, some 80+ years later in a nation where
firearm ownership is widespread, voluminous and growing.
Yesterday, virtually all of them passed another day nicely
oiled and cased without incident.

My guess is the majority of guns in the U.S. pass multiple
years while stored away. In other words, they are not
necessary, except to comfort certain paranoid individuals.

In particular, it's essentially never necessary to have a
gun capable of firing more than about five rounds in one
minute. Given that rapid fire guns have the proven detriment
of facilitating horrible illegal behavior, the balance of
benefits vs. detriments is heavily against them.

(BTW, only a tiny fraction of red light running causes
fatalities. That's not justification for allowing red light
running.)


Image is not a National Socialist but rather NKVD
(International Socialist) for those who see any difference
whatsoever among the sorry lot of socialists all together.

Five rounds per minute? WTF?
My .38 Police Special does all five in about 3 to 4 seconds
when actually concentrating on a target. Guys who are good
at that sort of thing use 8-shot revolvers and the record is
one second.

Back when I was a competition pistol shooter I used to practice on a
range where the State Police also practiced and I used to,watch then
shooting the "Practical Police Course" that included 10 rounds at 10
feet, or some such distance. 5 rounds, reload and 5 more in 10
seconds... with a six shot revolver and loose ammunition :-)

I'm curious how much time the typical British police have to put into
that kind of drill.

Probably very similar.
"in the year 2011–12, there were 6,756 Authorised Firearms Officers,

.... That's out of 130,000 total police? Not very similar to the U.S.

12,550 police operations in which firearms were authorised throughout
England and Wales"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police...United_Kingdom
and, it might be noted that in N.Ireland - still a part of the British
Empire - all police are armed.

It doesn't sound very similar at all to the U.S. First, that paragraph
talks about only Northern Ireland, not Great Britain or the entire UK.
IOW, it's not the "typical British police" I asked about.

Also, that article said that during World War Two, police were given
revolvers "in case of invasion" but did not carry them on patrol.
"Training for the Webley & Scott revolvers usually consisted of firing
six shots and to pass, it was required that three shots had to be on
target although loading of the actual weapon was not taught."

That was a special circumstance during wartime, and even then there was
no mention of pop-up targets and other extensive shooting drills that
American cops frequently use.

https://atstargets.com/home/security...tems-security/


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/26/2020 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 12:49:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/25/2020 8:25 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 9/24/2020 9:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:13:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2020 8:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger issue:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

... as if that's a daily occurrence in all other prosperous westernized
countries that have reasonable gun control?

Given that the photo shows an official of some sort executing two
individual I don't see that it involves gun control at all. Unless, of
course, you don't think that officials should be armed.


Meanwhile, just a few days ago and about three miles away, some dude
barged into a house in a very quiet neighborhood at 2 AM and blasted
away, shooting four adults and one four-year-old boy. The boy died in
his mother's arms.

Oddly, no "good guy with a gun" prevented the murder.

I suggest that the question is "Why". I did read that the police,
"stressed that it was not a random act of violence but rather a
targeted attack."

And I later read that "A suspect connected to a shooting that killed a
4-year-old Ohio boy and wounded four adults, including the boy's
mother, was arrested Monday night, authorities told Fox News.
and
Kimonie Bryant, 24, surrendered to the U.S. Marshals Service around 8
p.m., Struthers police Chief Tim Roddy said.


I do find it odd that one seldom hears calls for edged weapons control
or ban:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2020092...-hebdo-offices


Follow the UK news and you'll see lots of calls for knife control.

Here's a story on the CoE calling for a ban on pointy assault knives:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rn-world-says/

I gather that carrying a folding knife with a locking blade is
considered a serious offense in Blighty, sort of like a "gravity knife"
in NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/n...knife-law.html

Seems that particular misbegotten law has been repealed, sometimes there
is progress.

Rest assured that if knives are banned the powers that be will move on
to rocks and sharp sticks.

Let's compare knives vs. fast acting firearms.

There's this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States

vs. this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._United_States

The totals seem to be a bit different.

Try
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
31 deaths, 140 injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagamihara_stabbings
19 deaths and 26 injured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack
8 deaths and 48 injured

Right. I compared U.S. mass shootings vs. U.S. mass stabbings. Same
population base.

You had to canvass the world in order to come up with your three
examples of mass stabbings. None of yours were in the U.S.

Your grand total number of cited stabbing victims can be exceeded by
shooting deaths in a single American city in a single month.

--
- Frank Krygowski