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  #71  
Old June 24th 17, 01:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Chain Line

On 6/23/17 7:34 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

He had a handle-bar mounted one. So I am one of the few riders out here
with a "cup holder" on my MTB. I find that quite useful and have a
whopping 28oz bottle in it. In this area you can't have too much water
on the bike.


I have cup holders on my "around town" and commute bikes. I keep getting
asked where to buy them. I bought a bunch of them when one store was
closing them out so I have been giving them away. One thing I do is to
use heat-shrink tubing around the clamp section instead of the rubber
shim that comes with it, but that tended to slip out.

#20 at "38 Useful Items that You Can't Buy at Your Local Bicycle Shop"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sbysWs4spoaFDe5EuFCmOkbpapQ2aOLQ__Aqs16Pi4M/edit?usp=sharing
or http://tinyurl.com/notatlbs.
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  #72  
Old June 24th 17, 03:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Chain Line

On 2017-06-23 10:41, wrote:
On Friday, June 23, 2017 at 7:34:46 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 17:31, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 06:47,
wrote:

[...]

I bought that Trek Hi-Fi from that guy over in the Palo Alto hills
and I'll bet it didn't have 10 miles on it. Now if you're a full
suspension guy that was really a deal. I just couldn't go with the
weight.


It it was 21" or 23" frame I'd have bought that as well. Should be a
good sturdy trail bike, just what I need. My Fuji Outland 29er weighs
around 40lbs with all the mods I put on (IIRC it was around 30lbs when
new). I bought it mainly because of the tough frame but the downside of
that is that you can't mount a bottle holder on the frame.


That's a shame, lack of bottle mount, that is.

o the best of my knowledge i.e. Looking in bike shops/sites most FS frames
you can now, though some would only fit a smallish bottle.


The 2012 model Fuji Outland 29er still had a bottle mount but excessive
up stand-over height. If for some reason a rider had to jump off the
saddle forward he might sing soprano for a while :-)

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2012/Fuji/outland-29-10

On the 2013 model which I have they straightened out the top tube for a
normal stand-over height but the bottle mount had to sacrificed for lack
of space. The bike shop owner and I were quite puzzled by that. When
picking up my new MTB I wanted to buy a sturdy bottle holder from him,
he grabbed one and we stood there looking at the bike.

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2013/Fuji/outland-29-15-d

He had a handle-bar mounted one. So I am one of the few riders out here
with a "cup holder" on my MTB. I find that quite useful and have a
whopping 28oz bottle in it. In this area you can't have too much water
on the bike.


From a possibly wrecked memory - didn't those Fuji's have a down tube bottle mount down near the bottom forward facing area? It was high enough so that you couldn't hit it on anything.


The old ones had one at the very bottom of the down tube below the
shock, where the first photo shows. I never saw any with mounts below
the tube. Wouldn't be smart anyhow because it gets hit by rocks and
dirt. There was an event in Europe where numerous riders in the same
longhaul race became very sick. Turned out those were the guys who had
mounted additional bottles underneath, the tour went through farmland,
it was wet, and ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #73  
Old June 24th 17, 03:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Chain Line

On 2017-06-23 17:35, sms wrote:
On 6/23/17 7:34 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

He had a handle-bar mounted one. So I am one of the few riders out
here with a "cup holder" on my MTB. I find that quite useful and have
a whopping 28oz bottle in it. In this area you can't have too much
water on the bike.


I have cup holders on my "around town" and commute bikes. I keep getting
asked where to buy them. I bought a bunch of them when one store was
closing them out so I have been giving them away. One thing I do is to
use heat-shrink tubing around the clamp section instead of the rubber
shim that comes with it, but that tended to slip out.

#20 at "38 Useful Items that You Can't Buy at Your Local Bicycle Shop"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sbysWs4spoaFDe5EuFCmOkbpapQ2aOLQ__Aqs16Pi4M/edit?usp=sharing
or http://tinyurl.com/notatlbs.



My LBS is a small appointment-only deal. Yet when discovering that
problem on the just delivered MTB he headed straight to his display wall
and picked a handlebar holder that fit. I did have to mod it because it
wasn't sturdy enough for my riding, maybe because of the big 28oz bottle
in there. Underneath I placed old bicycle tube which keeps it from
rotating although the big bolts can be torqued down hard and the
handlebar is steel.

The MTB has made a few unplanned landings onto that holder and it still
lives.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #74  
Old June 26th 17, 07:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Chain Line

On 6/24/17 7:30 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a lot
of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee charts" in
some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too dark in color
then damage is being done.


Perhaps there should be an app for that.
  #75  
Old June 26th 17, 07:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Chain Line

On 2017-06-26 11:30, sms wrote:
On 6/24/17 7:30 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a
lot of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee
charts" in some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too
dark in color then damage is being done.


Perhaps there should be an app for that.



There is:

http://www.fscirc.com/articles/smart...ps-assist-scis

(first app under medical)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #76  
Old June 26th 17, 08:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Chain Line

On 6/26/17 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-26 11:30, sms wrote:
On 6/24/17 7:30 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a
lot of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee
charts" in some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too
dark in color then damage is being done.


Perhaps there should be an app for that.



There is:

http://www.fscirc.com/articles/smart...ps-assist-scis

(first app under medical)


Do you have to manually input the color?

  #77  
Old June 26th 17, 09:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Chain Line

On 2017-06-26 12:52, sms wrote:
On 6/26/17 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-26 11:30, sms wrote:
On 6/24/17 7:30 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a
lot of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee
charts" in some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too
dark in color then damage is being done.

Perhaps there should be an app for that.



There is:

http://www.fscirc.com/articles/smart...ps-assist-scis

(first app under medical)


Do you have to manually input the color?


It seems it gives you a color table just like the posters in the army
latrines.

http://a2.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple...en800x500.jpeg

It should technically be possible to engage the camera as well. However,
that isn't very sanitary because you'd have to handle the smart phone
while in the loo. Though I have heard people continuing cell phone chats
in there which I find disgusting.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #78  
Old June 27th 17, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,424
Default Chain Line

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 7:21:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 11:54:46 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:38:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/14/2017 5:28 PM, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old
square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket.
The argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the
original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original
square tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection
the chain line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit
some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove.
It is about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut
things and one
of the things I thought about was how could I change
bottom brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did
some measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece
BB there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of
the crank arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing
"flanges" measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern
BB results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly
less then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above
does explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back
again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600
gear which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner
edge of the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm.
Now assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge
BB has. That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce
the clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for
square taper and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from
where it was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square
tapered BB & cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy,
and the chain line didn't shift 10mm.

Why do you think you are special?


Chainline errors are entirely from not using the
manufacturer's specified parts.

Only a complete idiot would pull a functional spark plug
from a V8 and drop it into a 4-cyl Asian econobox. Yet
people mix arms and spindles which are ridiculously
incompatible every day and then ride over here to complain
that the crank's no good. Oy!

p.s. Almost all derailleur systems will work well with
+1mm/-1mm chainline error. Few can accept 10mm either way,
that is a very large distance.


I think I would have to be a bit picky here. A Big chain ring to a
small cassette cog is going to be about 21 mm out of line, assuming
that the chain line was initially aligned, big ring to 5th cog of a 9
speed cassette, and it still shifts.

But, of course, if the chain line was initially 10 mm out of alignment
then certainly shifting would be a bit "iffy" at least in one
direction :-)


On a triple the middle ring is aligned with the 5th cog.


Not on a Fuji
http://www.classicfuji.com/1981_Thumbs.htm
  #79  
Old June 27th 17, 01:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Chain Line

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:16:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-26 12:52, sms wrote:
On 6/26/17 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-26 11:30, sms wrote:
On 6/24/17 7:30 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a
lot of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee
charts" in some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too
dark in color then damage is being done.

Perhaps there should be an app for that.


There is:

http://www.fscirc.com/articles/smart...ps-assist-scis

(first app under medical)


Do you have to manually input the color?


It seems it gives you a color table just like the posters in the army
latrines.

http://a2.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple...en800x500.jpeg

It should technically be possible to engage the camera as well. However,
that isn't very sanitary because you'd have to handle the smart phone
while in the loo. Though I have heard people continuing cell phone chats
in there which I find disgusting.


I believer that is referred to as "Multi-tasking".
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #80  
Old June 27th 17, 01:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Posts: 853
Default Chain Line

sms wrote:
On 6/26/17 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-26 11:30, sms wrote:
On 6/24/17 7:30 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Be careful. Even if we aren't thirsty our bodies need to replenish a
lot of water tat got sweated out. In the army they even have "pee
charts" in some bathroom in hot weather locations. If the pee is too
dark in color then damage is being done.

Perhaps there should be an app for that.



There is:

http://www.fscirc.com/articles/smart...ps-assist-scis

(first app under medical)


Do you have to manually input the color?



Just pee on the headphone jack and it measures the ionic concentration...

 




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